Police Officer Shoots 12-Year-Old Boy Carrying BB Gun
A Cleveland police officer shot a 12-year-old boy (not pictured) outside a city recreation center late Saturday afternoon after the boy pulled a BB gun from his waistband, according to police.
A relative of the boy is seen crying on the ground after hearing of the shooting
[su_center_ad]There were reports of a male with a gun at about 3:30 p.m. which police responded to. A 911 caller told the dispatcher, “I’m sitting in the park…there’s a guy in here with a pistol, and it’s probably a fake one, but he’s pointing it at everybody.:
“The guy keeps pulling it in and out…it’s probably fake, but he’s scaring the s*** out of people,” he added.
Cleveland.com reports that the rookie officer saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association President Jeffrey Follmer said.
When the officer got out of the car, he told the boy to put his hands up.
That’s when the boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the BB gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.
According to Tomba, the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically. The weapon was not pointed at police officers.
The child was shot in the stomach and transported to a local hospital. He’s listed in serious condition.
“We don’t come to work everyday and want to use force on anybody,” Tomba said. “That’s not what our job is. We’re part of this community.”
“When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed,” Tomba said. “The way it looks like right now, it wasn’t followed, but we’re going to continue our investigation.”
According to 19 Action News, police say the weapon was an “airsoft” type replica gun, resembling a semi-automatic pistol, with the orange safety indicator removed.
Watch:
19 Action News|Cleveland, OH|News, Weather, Sports
H/T: The incomparable @CarlaAkins with thanks.[su_csky_ad]
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 10:06 am
I wonder if the cop that shot is mad because he didn’t get his kill shot.
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 10:48 am
It still counts for the NRA shooter of the month award
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 11:08 am
yeah, but he wasn’t a cop, was he?
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 11:25 am
Not that one…a gang member …the one you are thinking of was a cop that shot an innocent 28 yr old in a dark hallway
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 11:45 am
my bad. and both these cops were rookies weren’t they?
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 12:13 pm
18 month rookies
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Just found out the child died.
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 1:19 pm
so sad
Teddy Simon November 23rd, 2014 at 10:55 am
Are you mad because you weren’t born with a brain
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 11:07 am
It’s called S a r c a s m………………….. And you can never know the anger that I feel against these kill happy cops.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 12:13 pm
The child died…… still want to talk about who has a brain.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 12:17 pm
That cop is probably going to beat himself up about this shooting for the rest of his life. Even more so now that the kid has died. I’m betting that you don’t care about that. You’re probably far more content believing that all cops are evil.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 1:07 pm
I hope he does because the child’s parents have to. Cops are taught now days see a gun draw and fire their own. There is no more assess the situation first and then if necessary draw. How many more child and adults have to die at the hands of cops before there is a change in training? I feel no pity for cops that shoot first and ask questions later.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:12 pm
How many more people are going to disregard common sense, safety and the law (Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or about a public place.) before they realize that it can get them killed?
If the police see someone with a gun and they make ANY actions that are threatening to the police or the public at large, deadly force is authorized.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 4:00 pm
Ohio is an open carry state, but is it open carry only for certain people. Also he was a kid and kids normally don’t even listen to their parents. He didn’t have to open fire there were other ways of handling the situation. http://ohioccw.org/201404165111/cleveland-police-open-carry-policy-released.html
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 1:13 pm
The cop did the right thing. The “child” was brandishing a gun that he had altered to make it look more realistic, pointing it at people at the park, which prompted the 911 call in the first place.
He chose to ignore the cop’s orders to “put his hands up” and instead reached for the gun in his waistband.
It’s sad that the boy died, and I’m sure the parents will be grieving, as well as the officer, however, your attitude towards cops isn’t necessary here.
The rookie cop made the right call, and to demonize him for that, to disrespect him, makes you a terrible person.
Let’s see what you do when you receive a call about a man pointing a gun at people, who reaches for it when you arrive on the scene.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 4:05 pm
http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/11/how-the-cleveland-police-had-to-rush/ and I thought it was only the criminals that changed their stories.
Scott Downey November 25th, 2014 at 10:10 am
The person that called 911 told the dispatcher that it was a toy gun. Still think the cops are lifesaving heroes?
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:28 am
As stupid as this black thug is, another cop will get the opportunity in the near future to finish the job.
Tyrone November 23rd, 2014 at 11:31 am
Bruh, arnt you a bit too old and fat to be on this website. You should look into losing weight and getting botox.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 10:25 am
A toy gun, a ‘BB’ gun or a pellet gun is good enough to get shot by the police..
Hell even reaching into your ‘waistband’ or for your ID is enough for the police to shoot at you..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ZechD0qiY
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 11:24 am
This video really shows how a clearly frightened and impulsive cop did the wrong thing…it is fortunate that the person survived.
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:27 am
If you are an idiotic black thug (redundant I know), you’re right.
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 1:17 pm
-Sigh- This guy tried to follow police orders, but did it in the wrong way. Instead of telling the officer that his ID was in his vehicle and that he’d get it, he stayed quiet and reached into a vehicle to grab “something”.
Should I google and post links for every video on the web of a cop being shot at a routine traffic stop?
burqa November 23rd, 2014 at 10:26 am
I hate stories like this. It’s just awful for everyone involved and I don’t think there are any real answers.
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:26 am
Darwin published the answer long ago; it just takes a while.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 10:26 am
“When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed,” Tomba said. — Why would you expect that? The public doesn’t respect the police anymore. Until police departments clean up their act and earn the respect of the community they shouldn’t expect anything. When cops can gun people down with lethal force so easily they won’t be respected. Negotiation should be a thing all officers practice. That is what earns respect, not gunning people down in a park.
burqa November 23rd, 2014 at 10:32 am
I would add that a child doesn’t have the judgment all the time to comply, especially if the parents have done a poor job of raising them.
The po-lice will always have bad apples, just as any other large group of people in any profession will.
The cop had to make a split-second decision and tragedy ensued.
I doubt the cop knew it was a BB gun before he fired.
Budda November 23rd, 2014 at 10:34 am
Whether you respect the police or not when they give you a command your best move is to obey it.
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 10:47 am
Unless you want extra ventilation
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 11:56 am
Yeah, but they shouldn’t expect it.
Jane domes November 23rd, 2014 at 11:11 am
I guess they expect the general public does’nt want to be arrested,or shot.Pretty simple.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 11:58 am
At this point it almost doesn’t seem to matter what you do, you might get shot.
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 12:53 pm
Only if you’re stupid enough to reach for a realistic looking gun after refusing to comply with the demands of the officer.
It doesn’t matter if you respect police officers or not, they’re still the law. Just because there’s a few bad apples that abuse their position doesn’t lower every cop to the same standard.
Just like how not every black person is a thug, right? Oh, when we use general stereotypes in that sense, it’s racism. When we use it against cops, however, it’s justified? Hypocrisy.
Cops expect their orders to be followed because they are the authoritative figure. Teachers expect their orders to be followed at school, bosses, supervisors, managers, they expect their orders to be followed at work. It’s not a matter of respect, it’s a matter of authority.
In fact, weren’t a lot of people, yourself probably included, bitching because George Zimmerman disregarded the orders of the dispatch and followed Trayvon Martin instead of waiting for the cops to show up?
Of course, now… that’s tune has changed.
The kid was pointing the gun at people in the park and the caller who dialed 911 in the first place didn’t know if the gun was real or fake him/herself. It’s even quoted in the article: “It’s probably fake, but he’s point it at everybody and scaring the hell out of the people here.”
The cop did what he had to do with the knowledge he had of the situation, and given the circumstances.
Yeah, it’s sad that the kid died, but that’s the consequence of his actions, and maybe if his parents or family had taught him how to respond to police officers, or better yet, how to handle a weapon in the first place, then he’d still be alive today.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 1:21 pm
Oh great, another person that likes to stroke their ego and upvote themselves.
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:26 am
The kid pulled an Executive Order, and the cop shot it down.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 10:33 am
those ‘Airsoft’ toy guns look real..
http://www.hobbytron.com/AirsoftGuns.html#
They only shoot rubber pellets..
Real looking toy guns, and paranoid cops ready to pull the trigger..
Is a lethal combination.
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:24 am
When you have an idiotic black thug (redundant I know) who removes the orange tip, then you have trouble.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 11:29 am
I’m going to hold my comment to you…
This is a family friendly forum.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 11:34 am
He won’t be back.
Larry Schmitt November 23rd, 2014 at 11:36 am
Thank you for that.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 11:39 am
Sorry I didn’t catch him sooner.
Larry Schmitt November 23rd, 2014 at 11:42 am
I looked through a bit of his comment history, and it’s full of vile comments. He must be tons o’ fun at parties.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 11:52 am
I know..
They drop a turd, and run away…
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 12:34 pm
I also had a little fun with your other admirer on the Palin story. I was feeling impish.
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 10:43 am
The kid ain’t the brightest bulb in the box…
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:23 am
Darwin described the principle in effect here.
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 11:25 am
Tis clear by your comments that you missed the evolutionary process..
rg9rts November 23rd, 2014 at 11:29 am
His genes may still be in the pool
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 11:38 am
You are not welcome here. I will allow a couple of your comments stand, not because they have any value but to show what a racist ass you are.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:25 pm
it was a 12 year old child RG
rg9rts November 24th, 2014 at 12:24 am
12 is old enough to know what it means to put the gun down…sorry on this one TM
Teddy Simon November 23rd, 2014 at 10:53 am
Sorry but a cop is not going to just wait to see what you do when you grab a gun and is not going to wait o see if a gun is real or not . To be honest I don’ blame them .
JoeDrager November 23rd, 2014 at 11:23 am
One less black thug. Moveon.
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 11:26 am
Nothing like the smell of bigotry in the morning…
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 11:33 am
I just have no tolerance for your bullshit today, go back to Stormfront.
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 11:43 am
Thanks…the stench was pretty strong.
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 11:23 am
As long as the streets are awash with guns, cops will be on edge. This is not to excuse the killing of young people by unlawful or ramped up police action, but in a situation like this, where people called in a report of a person waving a gun around, the outcome is not good.
The NRA mantra of arming the population has succeeded in filling the streets with guns, angry and paranoid people, and cops trying to deal with it all.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 12:02 pm
First – It’s not a toy. Go try to buy an airsoft gun and look on the box. You’ll see two things in particular.
1. “NOT A TOY”
2. “THIS PRODUCT INTENDED FOR AGES 18+”
Second – it was illegal for him to even be in possession of the airsoft gun in the first place.
Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or about a public place.
This had absolutely nothing to do with his skin color. He was told to put his hands up and he instead chose to reach for the gun in his waistband. That is an action that warrants the use of deadly force.
It’s easy for all of you Monday morning quarterbacks to criticize the police officer for not knowing that it was an airsoft gun, but he isn’t psychic and the kid made the wrong moves, so it ended badly. It’s unfortunate for all involved.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 12:38 pm
He was a twelve year old kid. He was probably reaching for it to show the officer it was a toy. Officer freaked out and shot and killed him. If the officer had gotten the reports from dispatch about what was happening he should of figured it was probably a toy and acted accordingly. Gunning down children is not appropriate. If dispatch totally failed to communicate what was happening then people need to immediately be fired there. If dispatch informed the officer of what was happening then he shouldn’t be an officer with a gun.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 12:47 pm
Did you miss the part where I said that it’s not a toy? 12 year old kids are not above gang life. Gangs recruit kids as young as 10 years old. The 911 caller said it was probably a toy, but you can’t afford to trust “probably”. The police officer didn’t have the luxury of waiting to see if it was a real gun or not. He ordered the kid to put his hands up and the kid reached for the gun instead. That’s pretty much a guarantee that you will be shot. Had it been a real gun and had the police officer hesitated, the headline could have easily been “12 year old kid shoots police officer before being shot and killed by partner.”
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:25 pm
and more racism by implying this child is a gang member, I got you pegged perfectly
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 1:00 pm
Doesn’t work that way.
Any time you have to reach for something when dealing with the police, you should always tell the officer what you’re doing.
Considering the boy was at the park, pointing the gun at people, then got up off the table after police arrived, put the gun in his waistband, was told to put his hands up, and instead, reached for his gun? He suffered the consequences of his actions.
Dispatch informed the police correctly. The 911 call was from a person at the park who couldn’t readily clarify if the gun was real or fake. “Probably fake” isn’t good enough as evidence, and the officer was right in his call.
It sucks that a 12 year old died because of stupidity like this, but that’s what parents and role models are supposed to do. Teach these kids the proper way to do things.
If I get pulled over by a police officer, and he asks to see my ID, I will tell the officer where my wallet is at and that I’m reaching for it.
Look on the internet, look around for videos of police officers being shot by a pulled over driver, driving off as the officer hits the ground, and then ask yourself why they’re paranoid.
The cops are probably even more so paranoid now because they see the same news that you do. Cops being accused and indicted for violence, being demonized by the people they’re sworn to protect, riots, looters, etc.
You never know when some cop hating nut is going to just come out and shoot up the place.
Remember that ambush on the State Troopers? Yeah.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:24 pm
still slamming a 12 year old for not being a white adult
red-diaper-baby 1942 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:58 pm
Thank you for a well-argued post. Gunning down children is indeed not appropriate, and the counter-arguments presented in some of the posts here are irrelevant.
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 12:51 pm
I just think that our cops should be trained better. Yeah, perhaps it is as you wrote and the cop then should be aware that perhaps the kid can’t understand, perhaps he’s autistic playing with a toy, maybe the kid is deaf… there really isn’t any way of knowing by the cop. However, what if the cop told the kid to keep his hands where he (the cop) can see them things might be different… Or what if cops were trained to shoot to maim a hand that is going for the gun? Or in consideration that the cop was already warned that a) it’s a kid with a seemingly toy gun that b) the cop could have had a non-lethal proper response just in case the kid was deaf, autistic, dumb or whatever. It is still a child. I’m sure that there are non-lethal ways that can be used in these circumstances.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Shooting to maim is something you only see in the movies. It doesn’t work in real life. It wasn’t seemingly a toy gun. Here is what it looks like:
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:35 pm
After you add a photo, you have to refresh the page in order to see it.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:39 pm
I did. It didn’t show up for some reason.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:44 pm
I don’t know why it wouldn’t, it shows now.
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 1:44 pm
yeah, i only now saw the pic. looks real to me or not… i just wouldn’t know. Perhaps realistic toy guns should be banned…
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:49 pm
I wouldn’t know either, I simply wish law enforcement spent more time defusing the situation instead of of shooting as a first option.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 12:59 pm
Police officers can’t afford to play the “what if” game in situations like this. If they are busy playing “what if” and a kid has a real gun (which happens from time to time) the cop ends up getting shot or an innocent bystander ends up getting shot. Hesitation gets you killed.
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 1:56 pm
“The shooting happened about 3:30 p.m. at the Cudell Recreation Center on
the city’s west side, officials said. Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the
Cleveland police said on Saturday that the boy had not threatened the
officers or pointed the weapon at them.”
Bert Luna November 23rd, 2014 at 1:01 pm
you gotta be kidding? you want all cops to have pinpoint accuracy??? that would require years of training and only a select few could be that accurate in a tense situation. Also they would require a 6 figure salary! I’m fine with this, kids an idiot, one less person on welfare!
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 1:06 pm
damn right i want cops to have pin point accuracy!!! Again, the kid could have been deaf and was just playing a typical imagination type game. And in this situation there are no winners.
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 1:10 pm
Lol, what? Even if the kid was deaf (Probably wasn’t), and even if he had been playing some imagination game (Could have been), that doesn’t excuse him pointing at gun at multiple people at the park, and scaring the hell out of them. That’s what prompted the 911 call in the first place.
His parents, or family, should have been looking after him if he were deaf, and should have taught the boy not to point his gun at other people like that.
Again, sucks that he died, but that’s the consequence of his actions.
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 1:16 pm
true.
Still would like to know how much training do cops have for situations like these.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:18 pm
the caller should have said a CHILD. why is it all you stormfront /brietbart garbage follow stories about young black children being killed ?
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 1:21 pm
Tracey Marie, I suggest you calm down. Trying to imply that I’m a racist by asking why I follow stories about young black children being killed won’t get you anywhere, and in fact, only goes to prove that you’re the bigger racist here for thinking that this was the only reason the kid was shot for.
I’m a military veteran, and I’m sorry, the kid’s death is a tragedy, but there’s no denying that he shouldn’t have had a gun, toy or otherwise, at that park. He certainly shouldn’t have been pointing it at everyone either.
Now, you may be able to go to the park, and smile when a child points a gun at you, one that looks as realistic as the gun in this case, but other people who deal with constant threats won’t do the same.
So, please. Try to understand, and be respectful, or shut up.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:23 pm
I suggest you kiss my ass. Your comment history proves me correct on what you are.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:34 pm
Tracy, please dial it back. Just because they disagree does not make their comment racist. We appreciate your regular readership but you can’t allow you to call everyone you disagree with a racist.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:36 pm
I don’t and he is. His history shows it
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:38 pm
His is not the only comment I’m referring to. We should engage in a debate, not immediately jump to a conclusion without trying to discuss the issue.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:43 pm
I see what you are saying. I check the history and he is terrible. Notice his ready to spam list of 12 year olds that kill. That is what stormfront teaches.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Tracy I reviewed his history before I commented to you. He holds a different view but he is not rude, and provides a lengthy explanation of his opinion and there is not connection to Stormfront.
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 1:48 pm
The shooting happened about 3:30 p.m. at the Cudell Recreation Center on
the city’s west side, officials said. Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the
Cleveland police said on Saturday that the boy had not threatened the
officers or pointed the weapon at them.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:03 pm
Since you seem to be so fond of cut and paste, perhaps you should remember this part:
“When the officer got out of the car, he told the boy to put his hands up.
That’s when the boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the BB gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.”
tiffany_o November 23rd, 2014 at 1:15 pm
I was with you until the “one less person on welfare”.
Seriously?
Based on what? I’m curious. Please enlighten us how you “know” this person to be on welfare, of if you don’t know, what brought you to that assumption.
And great insight into your perspective into how to cull welfare rolls. Children on welfare’s lives are less valuable?
Can’t wait to hear this.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:32 pm
You replied to the wrong post.
tiffany_o November 23rd, 2014 at 2:55 pm
How so?
Maybe Disqus is acting up?
or whatever. It is still a child. I’m sure that there are non-lethal ways that can be used in these circumstances.1
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Bert Luna slavko • 2 hours ago
you gotta be kidding? you want all cops to have pinpoint accuracy??? that would require years of training and only a select few could be that accurate in a tense situation. Also they would require a 6 figure salary! I’m fine with this, kids an idiot, one less person on welfare!
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tiffany_o Bert Luna • 2 hours ago
I was with you until the “one less person on welfare”.
Seriously?
Based on what? I’m curious. Please enlighten us how you “know” this person to be on welfare, of if you don’t know, what brought you to that assumption.
And great insight into your perspective into how to cull welfare rolls. Children on welfare’s lives are less valuable?
Can’t wait to hear this.3
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tiffany_o November 23rd, 2014 at 2:56 pm
Tried to screen shot it but it’s not working. Like someone else said below, pictures aren’t loading.
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 1:30 pm
So typical, the attitude cannot remain hidden for more than three sentences…
You approve of killing kids, particularly ones you descibe as a “idiot” and on welfare.
Back to Stormfront, your momma’s calling you.
red-diaper-baby 1942 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:52 pm
that’s about the most disgusting thing I’ve heard in a long time.
On another thread, a writer asked if there was any limit to how low conservatives could sink. I’d say your post is a good demonstration that there’s no such limit.
And yes, if a cop can’t shoot accurately he shouldn’t have a gun. Seems to me that’s the minimum demand!
Melanie Revers November 23rd, 2014 at 2:11 pm
So it’s ok in your eyes to shoot a kid? God, I hope you don’t have any.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:16 pm
“one less kid on ‘welfare’.”…
You forgot to shout out “white power” at the end of your comment..
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:16 pm
spamming your racism
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:19 pm
WTF is wrong with you? Where did I say anything that could even be construed as racist?
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:23 pm
I hate inbred racist trolls like you…did this link to drudge. you seem to follow the articles on the killings of young black men and denigrate the young men and children who are murdered
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:26 pm
I followed this story because I was a military police officer. Enough with the racist name calling, Tracy. You don’t know shit about me. Get off your damn cross and stop acting like some self-righteous hero of the masses.
red-diaper-baby 1942 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:49 pm
Sorry, RD, but “military police officer” seems to be a contradiction in terms. A policeman is a “peace officer”. A soldier’s job is to fight the enemy, usually by killing as many of them as possible. Are the American people your enemy? Perhaps that explains why we hear almost daily of an innocent person killed by a police officer for no good reason; e.g. jumping the turnstile on the subway, or “resisting arrest” — for an offence that didn’t exist in the first place.
“A peace officer or law enforcement officer (LEO) in North America is any public-sector employee or agent whose duties primarily involve the enforcement of laws.” (Wikipedia; not the most authoritative of sources, but this definition seems okay.)
The point is that the laws are binding on the police as well; you don’t have unlimited authority, and can’t demand unconditional obedience from the public. You should stop acting that way.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:53 pm
Look it up. MOS 95 Bravo. Who do you think it is that patrols military bases and makes arrests of soldiers who violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice? MPs.
Not all soldiers are trained strictly for combat operations.
Think before you speak or write.
red-diaper-baby 1942 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:05 pm
Thanks, but I always think before I speak or write; speaking and writing have both been part of my profession for the last forty years.
This was a twelve-year-old child, not a soldier. A police officer should have sufficient training to be able to evaluate a situation before shooting a child. If he doesn’t, he should be taken off the job, or at least not allowed to interact with the public, until he does. Sorry, but your rationalizations are irrelevant.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:08 pm
Irrelevant to you, maybe.
Nowhere did I say that this kid was a soldier. You implied that there is no such thing as a military police officer. Did you bother to look it up or are you content to consider everything that doesn’t fit your personal narrative irrelevant?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:11 pm
Military Police officer…you got to run rough shod over anyone in the ‘service’…
But you have/had no authority over the civilian population…
That must be a hard pill to sallow knowing you have no authority over civilians..(like being neutered)..
Unless you get hired on to a local police department..
Then you can treat civilians like you did while you where in the SP/MP role..
But reality doesn’t play out that way..
mockzy November 23rd, 2014 at 12:17 pm
Ferguson Mo. all over again……….wait and see……..
Matt Dillon November 23rd, 2014 at 12:50 pm
“When the officer got out of the car, he told the boy to put his hands up.
That’s when the boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the BB gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.”
Do stupid stuff win stupid prizes.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 1:07 pm
It’s fairly easy to criticize both parties in this case but it’s also worth remembering that convicted felons who have shot at LEO’s w/automatic weapons and have been taken alive w/o injury.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:09 pm
I often use airsoft guns as film props, so let me transcribe exactly what the outside of the box in front of me says:
WARNING! This product may be mistaken for a firearm by law enforcement officers and others. Any person who changes, alters, removes or obliterates any coloration or markings that are required by state or federal law or regulation, in any way that makes this product look more like a firearm is guilty of a misdemeanor.
WARNING! The open display, brandishing, and/or exposing of this product in any “public place” may cause confusion and may be a crime.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:15 pm
says the adult cpomparing itself to a CHILD. 12 years old
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:18 pm
The adult, namely either one of his PARENTS should never have given it to him in the FIRST PLACE. If the kid can’t read or comprehend what is written on the box and on the instruction inside the box, he shouldn’t have it at all. It’s not a damn toy.
It was illegal for him to even have it at that park to begin with.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:20 pm
you are a troll from brietbart/stormfront
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:23 pm
Keep telling yourself that, Tracy. I’ve never been to either one of those propaganda sites. You are the troll because you feel the need to call anyone who doesn’t agree with you a racist. Try contributing something relevant to the discussion instead of ignoring anything that doesn’t fit your preconceived narrative.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:26 pm
waaaaaa
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:26 pm
How very intelligent of you.
WHY_O_WHY November 23rd, 2014 at 2:42 pm
Tracey, I 100% agree that Brietbart and Fox and so many other teabagging media outlets suck, but I 100% agree with RD81 about the guns, parenting, etc. Twelve year old kids aren’t living under a rock these days. If he knows that he can pretend to be Johnny Badass by waving an air pistol around and then tucking it in his waistband, then he knows that the reason for tucking it there is to not get caught holding it. It’s a shame that it happened at all, but public safety trumps all other matters here…and no, I didn’t think that in Darren Wilson’s situation. That f’er knew what he was doing and should burn.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 2:59 pm
Good for you, I do not agree with either of you. 12 years old is a child with a childs lack of reason and seeing consequences. The cop murdered a child, period
slavko November 23rd, 2014 at 1:38 pm
“The shooting happened about 3:30 p.m. at the Cudell Recreation Center on
the city’s west side, officials said. Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the
Cleveland police said on Saturday that the boy had not threatened the
officers or pointed the weapon at them.”
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:14 pm
“we expect to be obeyed” It was a child not a guy, suspect or threat, a CHILD.
Christopher Warnack November 23rd, 2014 at 1:14 pm
A CHILD that was pointing his GUN at OTHER PEOPLE.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:19 pm
says the troll from stormfront/brietbart
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 1:50 pm
12 year old with a toy gun…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:50 pm
It’s NOT a toy.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 2:26 pm
airsoft rifles are not all in the same catalog as BB/pellet guns, however they are classified as such. Most of these bb guns are little plastic balls that lack any visible weight to them, they have a distance of about 5 feet or so, and one can seldom knock over an empty soda can just 2″ away. I know as a fact. However indeed there are other types of bb/pellet guns that do pack a punch, usually these are powered by compressed cartridges or pump, the remaining ones as I mentioned are battery, and motor driven which is harmless.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:16 pm
There are airsoft rifles that are capable of firing those 6mm plastic BBs at speeds higher than 600-650 feet per second. That is far faster than most .177 cal bb/pellet pistols (many of which fire at speeds ranging from 350 fps to 550 fps. Far from harmless.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:38 pm
12-year-old kills brother in video game re-enactment
Published: Friday, November 30, 2001
Preteen Boy Scout (12 years old) fatally shoots 16-year-old sister, self with dad’s gun in Washington state murder-suicide:Published: October 11, 2014
Ohio 12-year-old kills self after fatally shooting 9-year-old half-brother
Published: June 28, 2013
12-Year Old Kills 9-Year Old Boy Because He Wants To Go To Jail
Published: August 10, 2014
12-Year-Old Kills His Brother, 14, Over BikePublished: June 05, 1988
12 year olds can kill. Just because they are children, it does not automatically mean that they can’t pose a threat.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:40 pm
seems the rest of your friends are here posting the same meme
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:43 pm
It’s not a meme. It is called research. You should try it some time instead of just vomiting up the same tired and ignorant sentences that you are so prone to use.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:43 pm
shut your mouth rd
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 3:54 pm
None of those cases are where a child was in a park playing. It should first be assumed it is a toy, children should be innocent until proven guilty just like adults. My guess is the officer never even asked him if it was toy, he just started barking orders at a child that wasn’t his. A twelve year old child shouldn’t be expected to act like an adult, they are not one. They act like children because that is what they are.
red-diaper-baby 1942 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:39 pm
exactly. But these cops don’t even look before they start shooting.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 1:22 pm
I have a question why is this site running a photo of an automatic rifle when the “toy” in question was a pistol?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/23/3596076/cleveland-12-year-old-shooting/
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 1:26 pm
let’s scare people
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 1:39 pm
Probably a stock photo.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 1:27 pm
Your done here.
Josh Skies November 23rd, 2014 at 1:37 pm
Whites across America (yes, even your little liberal white friends) think black males are inherently dangerous.
Anybody with common sense would know that the likelihood of a 12 year old being on a playground pointing a weapon at people with intent to kill is slim to none (if he was white & on a school yard it would be a different story).
What likely happened is this officer went to the scene and made the calculation:
BLACK + Young + Male = DANGEROUS
And in his mind he was just looking for a reason to kill because of the inherent fear white Americans have for black males.
And the whole “when an officer gives an order” stuff is BS. I’m sure that kid did not point a gun at a cop. Im also sure he wasn’t even given a chance to put the toy down before he was shot. he likely turned to see who the hell was yelling at the cop used it as an excuse to kill him.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 1:39 pm
(yes, even your little liberal white friends)…
This is where I stopped reading the comment..
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 2:19 pm
Im a good ole boy down south in conservative land, and I am outraged at this happening, I don’t give a damn whether a law exists that prohibited it or not (bb & pellet guns in public places) That freaking law is not reasonable defense when theres a child and a toy, in a park. No one told the children they couldnt play with their toys in a public park, no more than one could expect that a child would think it’s illegal to do so, when I beleive most adults wouldnt even give it a thought as being illegal either.
WHY_O_WHY November 23rd, 2014 at 2:33 pm
F U! I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you totally stereotyped a white kid at school with a gun.
Why can’t you just be honest with yourself and say that ANY 12 year old with a gun is dangerous?
Chuck Gladfelter November 23rd, 2014 at 3:34 pm
I see bigoted stereotyping isn’t limited to dumb white people…
red-diaper-baby 1942 November 23rd, 2014 at 1:38 pm
“A male with a gun”? “a guy in here with a pistol”? For crying out loud, this is a twelve-year-old child. Have these police officers no training at all for taking a look — just one look — at their victim and quickly evaluating the situation before they start shooting?
That was a rhetorical question; it’s fairly obvious they have no training at all, except to shoot first and ask question afterwards.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Listen to the video…
at 1;20 it says, “they boy pulled his shirt up,showed the toy gun and pulled it out”..
The police say he never brandished it or pointed it at officers,,,..
But that didn’t stop the cops from opening fire on a 12 year old with a a toy gun..
Nick Borelli November 23rd, 2014 at 1:58 pm
It’s just one of those things.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 2:04 pm
I own two of those airsoft rifles. Fact is the ends of the rifle that have the orange marking is a seperate piece that screws off the end, and to be honest it screws on very loosly and rattles really annoying if one asked me. I took mine off because when shooting the bb’s the loose end barrel with the marking slow the bb’s and more often than not get jammed inside the end. So just because this kids toy gun shows the orange marking was scratched off, which could mean removed for the very same reasons, is not an excuse to be shot at by anyone period.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:06 pm
Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in
his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or
about a public place.
He never should have had it in the first place.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 2:07 pm
He was also 12 years old, just because theres a law on the books doesn’t mean it’s reasonable either.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:23 pm
There is no excuse for his parents not knowing the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. His parents never should have bought it for him.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:40 pm
Just like that 9 year old girl on the shooting range with the Full auto Uzi…
How would you like to live with knowing you killed a person cause your parents thought it would make a cool video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4x8cDrU2k
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:42 pm
That was negligence on the part of the instructor and it was a mistake that got him killed.
It IS a lot like this situation. The 12 year old’s parents were negligent and the kid made several mistakes that ended up getting him killed.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 3:57 pm
All except for that part about being in a park with other children playing and not being a gun range.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:03 pm
He never should have brought that airsoft gun with him. He never should have tucked it into his waistband when the police car was approaching and he never should have reached for it when he was told to put his hands up. It’s his parents’ fault that he had the gun to begin with and it is his fault that he got shot. He is not innocent in all this. He clearly knew that he shouldn’t have it because he made a conscious effort to conceal it. His death was the result of contributory negligence.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 4:05 pm
You make a lot of assumptions.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:06 pm
As do you.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 5:53 pm
He is still a 12 year old child playing in a park. The officer could of done things a lot differently. Like be evasive and negotiate till an understanding is reached instead of killing a child. You can not treat children like adults.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:03 pm
It’s easy for you to say that from the comfort of your chair in your home. It’s easy to second guess and speculate having knowledge that was not available to the police officers at the time.
He never should have had the gun in the first place.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 6:25 pm
I will grant you he shouldn’t have had a toy gun that looks real and can do some actual damage in a park but it was still a toy and the damage it could of have done is minimal. All I know is what I would have done, cautiously advance always near cover and try and talk the situation down. To me that is common sense, especially around children.
ps. I do know someone that is a high ranking MP at a major military base. I do not think they would disagree with me.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:39 pm
How many times do I have to say it is NOT a toy. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to accept? It’s not a toy. I’ve shown the label from an airsoft gun box that says it’s not a toy. The manufacturer says it’s not a toy. Stop calling it a damn toy.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 7:26 pm
I know exactly what it is. It is a toy. Yes it can hurt, lots of toys can. If it was a pellet gun with an fps of 1000 that shot lead projectiles I would think differently. Usually though those guns have different kinds of sights on them. It may be hard to tell at a distance with a quick glance but that is why the officer should of advanced evasively. He should have given himself time to evaluate the situation instead of rushing into a park to manhandle a child where children are playing and start shooting. I am sorry but all I see is dumb cocky behavior by someone who wasn’t trained right and showed a total lack of empathy for who was involved.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:02 pm
So, pellet pistols that shoot lead pellets or steel BBs at 450 fps don’t count? Because that’s the average fps of CO2 powered bb guns. There are pump bb/pellet rifles that have a max fps of about 640. Are they toys in your mind?
There are airsoft sniper rifles that have a FPS of 740. Are they toys?
You know what? Call it whatever you want. Call it a toy. Call it a dildo for all I care. It doesn’t make you any less wrong.
WHY_O_WHY November 23rd, 2014 at 2:29 pm
Sorry, Daniel…and please don’t take this as me trolling or being pro-gun because I vote blue…but where were the parents here? Granted, it’s been 40 years since I was 12, and I’m not saying that my mother or father knew every person with whom I befriended, but I also knew the hazards of a toy gun, even in 1974. Even if I would’ve played with a gun back then, I wouldn’t have had the mentality to put it in my waistband, even if this kid was somehow role playing.
Melanie Revers November 23rd, 2014 at 2:05 pm
Is it just me, or are the cops killing a lot of people they shouldn’t be lately?
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 2:16 pm
yes they do seem to be…
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:18 pm
It isn’t “lately”…
i has been happening for a long time.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:21 pm
So people stop calling it a damn toy, here is a picture directly from the box of one:
Perhaps if his parents had read it, he’d still be alive.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:28 pm
Note the part that says NOT A TOY. Can it be any clearer than that?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:34 pm
‘shoots rubber bullets”…
It’s a freaking toy…
No matter what you say.
Just like those ‘Yard darts” they used to sell…
“these are not real darts’….(until one impales your head)
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:40 pm
Apparently, you can’t read, because it says “plastic projectiles” aka hard plastic BBs. Some rifles are capable of firing those plastic projectiles at speeds north of 600 feet per second (that’s about 410 miles per hour if you can’t figure it out on your own)
It’s idiots like you who disregard instructions, guidelines and regulations and then act shocked when bad things happen.
It says “NOT A TOY”. It also says “FOR AGES 18 YEARS AND UP”. If you can’t comprehend that, that’s your defect.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:44 pm
Apparently you can not define a ‘toy” from an actual “firearm”..
Save the name calling for the other sites you haunt.
Hey RD81…
I’m going to keep it real simple, so simple even you can understand..
Just STFUAH..
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:56 pm
How much more blatant than the MANUFACTURER of the damn things using the words NOT A TOY do you need? Do you have brain damage? Are you incapable of understanding what NOT means? NOT A TOY clearly defines the airsoft guns as NOT A GOD DAMN TOY.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:58 pm
Look at you using the F- word…
Doesn’t take much to make you madder than a bag full o cats…
Your fuse is easy to light..
Hold on to this match…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 2:59 pm
You obviously lack the brain capacity to understand simple concepts. Either that or you are such a sad individual that you feel the need to be a troll for your own entertainment.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:35 pm
calling names and telling people to shut up again…try it yourself
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:44 pm
Clearly you haven’t learn how to do it.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:45 pm
shut up and grow up
Shartiblartfat November 23rd, 2014 at 2:23 pm
Cops always make me nervous, even when I’m just watching them work. Having said that, the kid is a moron with no clue of normal behavior. This kid could have been a candidate for a Darwin Award, usually given posthumously.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 2:31 pm
Bulls on Parade..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L4YrGaR8E4
Toby Lynn November 23rd, 2014 at 2:43 pm
whats really sad is fact everyone is so stressed out over all bullshit happening in the in our country ,we’re taking it out on each other.Right or wrong bout what happened, he should not have been out alone with the gun. Biggest issue I see with kids today and trouble they are getting into is lack of adult supervision.Race should never be used as anissue. I could care less if your skin is green,purple or orange. People need to be responsible for their actions and teach their children the same
Boehner-Monkey November 23rd, 2014 at 2:49 pm
Right, but when racism is institutionalized and pardoned on a regular basis it becomes part of the paradigm.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 2:58 pm
I hope the kid survives. The moral of this story is, never pull a gun out whether a toy or real in front of a cop.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:00 pm
He apparently died this morning.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 3:07 pm
That’s really sad, kids will be kids and sometimes they just don’t know. I’m an advocate of the police possessing only non lethal weapons just for this reason. To many people are being shot and killed.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:09 pm
The problem is that there are situations where the non-lethal weapons that are currently available would not be applicable to the situation. They wouldn’t work and would most likely just get the police officer killed.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:15 pm
what part of a 12 year old child shot by the police did you miss?
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:33 pm
all of it. he has been here defending cops and killers and pretending a 12 year old has the maturity of an adult
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:34 pm
seems to tell everyone you disagree with to shut up, afraid of facts and truth entering your rants.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:44 pm
Says the one who got most of her comments deleted for calling everyone who disagreed with you a racist….
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:45 pm
lmao, you hood is showing now, stony pulled it right out of you and now you have proved me correct about you.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:58 pm
Keep telling yourself that and enjoy living in your delusional little fantasy world. You’re not worth wasting any more time on.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 4:01 pm
Lol, are you going to get all whiny anger and curse, stomp your feet and yell shut up
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:48 pm
lol, oopsy, seems your comment filled with foul langauge and uncontrolable rage was deleted.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 3:23 pm
Yes, that is the legitimate argument, the police would be vulnerable, but that doesn’t address the problem that to many people are being shot and killed. Different or better training along with better laws limiting access to firearms would be a good start. Follow that with different police methods, i.e….if a call comes about a possible suspect with a gun, is it right to send a rookie beat cop to walk up to the suspect? Or should there be another way to control the person or situation?…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:29 pm
He was with a veteran police officer (10-15 years on the job). This was an unfortunate situation, but it ended the way it did because the kid made several fatal mistakes.
1. He violated the law by bring that airsoft gun to the park in the first place.
2. He made the mistake of picking the airsoft gun up off the table and tucking it into his waistband as the police car approached them.
3. He disregarded the order to put his hands up and instead chose to show the airsoft gun and reach for it.
Had it been a real gun (there are numerous instances of 12 year olds being in possession of live firearms) and the cop hesitated in order to investigate further, we might be reading a headline about a 12 year old killing a rookie police officer, instead.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:33 pm
rookie cop, read trhe article
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 3:35 pm
Yeah, we might be, but we’re not. That’s the point i’m trying to make. Kids will be kids, he made a few mistakes, he figured the cop would know it was a toy and pulled it out to show him. He hid it because he didn’t want to lose it, it’s all relevant, but he’s still dead and the police killed him. The situation could have ended differently if the police are trained to have a plan in place to control this type of situation with kids in a park without shooting.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 3:56 pm
The cops weren’t psychic. They had no way of knowing that it was an airsoft gun. It’s easy for everyone to Monday morning quarterback this story now, because hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. The cop didn’t have that luxury. He told the kid to put his hands up. He reached for the gun instead. If he figured that the cop would somehow magically know, he figured wrong. The fact that he attempted to conceal it showed that he knew that he shouldn’t have it in the first place.
Cops have a split second to make a decision and a lifetime to live with the consequences.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Right, the cop didn’t have the luxury. He only drew and fired immediately on sight of the gun because that is how he is trained. You will simply not see that THAT is the problem here. Did the cop give him enough time to say “look it’s toy”??
How about if he kept his distance first, and when the kid pulled the toy gun out he backed away instead of drawing and firing? The kid obviously wasn’t going to shoot him since it was a toy gun. You are concerned about the psychic abilities of the cop, what about the kid?
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:13 pm
The cop told him to put his hands up. Had he put his hands up, the cop would have been able to frisk and secure the airsoft gun. He didn’t do that. He grabbed for it and he got shot as a consequence.
Backing away won’t help you outrun a bullet if it is a real gun. A cop is not going to wait to be fired upon before firing upon someone who makes a threatening move with a weapon (quickly reaching toward a weapon in the waistline while ignoring orders to keep your hands up qualifies as a threatening move). If cops did wait, there would be a lot more dead cops.
The clearest lesson to learn here is that if a police officer tells you to put your hands up, you put your hands up.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 4:22 pm
No doubt that’s the lesson. It is also one of those times where a nonlethal weapon response would have worked.
Elizabeth Huckeba Walker November 23rd, 2014 at 5:17 pm
Then the cops will be killed and if shooter is arrested everyone will be
crying it didn’t happen that way it wasn’t shooter’s fault.
The
people at fault are this kids parents, you teach a kid never to point a
gun real or play at another person. We don’t live in the cowboy,
cowgirl, Indians world anymore, every day here in Atlanta,Ga. and I mean
every day, it is killing, killing, killing, it is black on black,
killing kids laying in bed asleep, shooting people and leaving in middle
street.
Breaking and entering killing home owners, it is crazy.
I
live about 50 miles southwest of Atlanta, a kid who is associated with a
gang was roaming through a townhouse area looking for someone, went in
to a home went upstairs and killed a sleeping 13 year old on his
birthday, this child was a straight A student. The boy that did the
shooting was only 18. Everyone here mourned this child. He was one of
our home town kids his skin color didn’t matter.
I don’t know how I would react if I were a police officer, because God gave all of us survival instinct.
I have use a gun to protect my self before, it is not something you want to do.
If someone was pulling a gun and you don’t know if it is real or a play and point it at you what would you do.
People need to teach or kids about these toys, that look real.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:13 pm
Bummer..
Another cop killing a kid, this time a 12 year old child..
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:10 pm
It Was a Good Day..
Ice Cube..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIgiwEVCUQ
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:15 pm
Reading these comments makes me pity society, all black vs white, all the cop wanted to do was kill somebody, etc etc, do any of you people think or have a brain? For one stop calling it a toy, it looked almost identical to an automatic pistol especially from a far. Two the police heard he was pointing it at other kids, and in a society where school shootings are on the rise and also shootings on cops they need to be extremely cautious. They told him to put his hands up and what does the kid do? He lifts up his shirt showing the weapon and reaches for it. Now if I was a cop, and told someone regardless of age to not reach for a gun and they did I would not allow them to take out that weapon and wait to see what happened regardless of the kids age. Its an extremely unfortunate event but stop being naive and saying they just wanted to kill someone, think for a moment and look on past events, I too would have fired if he pulled out the gun after being told to put his hands up, because I am not going to sit back and wait for him to aim at me.
Boehner-Monkey November 23rd, 2014 at 3:23 pm
When it becomes more about the safety of the cop than about the safety of the people they are supposed to serve and protect it becomes a problem. We need to start hiring less jacked up cops with temper problems and fear of protestors, etc.. and start hiring cops more interested in actually serving the people, which is supposed to be their job. The whole culture of law enforcement has become cavalier about permitting illegal violence against citizens and needs to be monitored, overseen, and reformed. (And videotaped often.)
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:28 pm
So you would let someone pull a gun on you after being told to put their hands up and just wait to see what happens? Again you’re brainless, yes they serve us and they did their job. they told the kid to put his hands up for his safety and their own, he disobeyed those orders and pulled out a weapon. I highly doubt you would let someone do that and wait for their action instead of intervening if you had been that cop. and again protesters and someone pulling out a gun is completely different!! He could have been killed if it was real, he followed protocol and thats whats supposed to be done if someone pulls out a weapon on them after being told what to do in this instance put his hands up away from his weapon.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:31 pm
not someone, a CHILD.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:37 pm
Okay yes it was a child, hmmm have children killed adults in the past? the answer is yes they have, just because its a child doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous. Think back to when you were a kid, if a cop told you to put up your hands would you just grab the gun in your pants? no I would have been scared to death and cried probably or put my hands up immediately. But he didn’t he reached and pulled out a weapon and the policeman acted accordingly
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:38 pm
yuou have friends here spamming the same meme, take your garbage to your notrmal trolling locations
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:43 pm
I am sorry you are naive and don’t want to face the reality of the world tracey.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:43 pm
shut your mouth
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:27 pm
Holy cow tracey, kids shoot people all the time. I know you read the papers.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 8:27 pm
a child with a toy gun and the cop knew it was a child with a toy gun
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:42 pm
seems you and your buddies are getting so angry and upset. maybe you need to shut your mouth
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:31 pm
If ‘brandishing’ a toy gun was good enough to get a person shot by the police…
I would have been shot down in the 1960’s for brandishing my Mattel toy M-16 replica rifle…
Or my replica 30-30 lever action ‘The Rifleman’ toy rifle..(Chuck Conner).
Then there were the toy pistols with holsters I grew up with..(cap guns)
Guess I was just lucky I wasn’t born black..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:41 pm
Oh shut your mouth stoney. You’ve seen the “toy gun” it looks almost exactly like an automatic pistol. And let me guess your toy guns back in the day had a orange piece on the tip too? and did you ever take out that weapon when a policemen told you to put your hands up? I’m guessing the answer is no, so don’t give me sob stories about being lucky you weren’t black or killed, you’re pulling race into an incident that had nothing to do with black white or yellow, maybe read past articles and realize many white teens or children have been killed by police too, stop being naive and ignorant.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:43 pm
shut your mouth action
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:45 pm
It’s not my fault you don’t want to face the facts and reality of the situation. Instead you rather live behind a thin wall of innocents, and excuses such as “toy gun”, race and what ever excused you can concoct for the events that unfolded
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:43 pm
“Oh shut your mouth stoney”….
Is that how you begin a conversation?..
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:26 pm
Did you brandish your gun at a police officer? Did you not comply with, said officer’s, demand to put your hands up? It wasn’t just the gun, it was reaching for it when the police officer told him to put his hands up.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:40 pm
Nice to see you support the military/police state..
“law and order” that’s what it’s all about…
“obey the commands”..
“this is a lawful order, get your face on the ground now”…
maybe you have a license to carry a concealed weapon..
But after the police ground your face into the pavement, you might be allowed to go about your business..then again, if you make a fuss..
maybe not.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:48 pm
You know if you follow their orders and do as you’re told they typically won’t stuff your face into the pavement. Typically when you resist arrest is when those events will unfold, There not hard orders to follow, be silent and prove your innocence in court not on the same ground as the policeman who then have the right of physicality over you if you disobey.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:49 pm
this is a child not an adult…oh but it is ablack child
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:57 pm
You do realize many WHITE men and children have wrongfully been killed by cops don’t you? But because they aren’t black it doesn’t surface as often.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 4:13 pm
you mean do we have stats that prove that just as many whites get killed by cops as blacks. Well, no but here are some stats that don’t make your point. http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:24 pm
It is a stupid child. Darwinism…black or white.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 3:49 pm
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuo7MgU9XpJZoHMdhpbEYgbN2HSEMyC4skp2B-KwBgiiOV-wTR
this is what i grew up pointing and popin off rolls of caps are my friends and strangers..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:51 pm
But did a policeman ever tell you to put your hands up after hearing or seeing you point that at people or your friends? And did you then reach for said toy after being told not to? I will judge not, so therefor your personal stories have no correlation to the events that unfolded and you can’t then say its a miracle I wasn’t killed.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:52 pm
you are wrong, cops today are thugs
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:55 pm
Some maybe yes, others no. You cannot generalize every cop in the U.S. some yes have taken actions to the extreme but this cop followed protocol and that doesn’t make him a bad cop
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:56 pm
you are wrong
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:58 pm
Thank you again tracey for your wonderful and intelligent input its greatly desired and sought after in todays society.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 4:00 pm
lol, stop whining. Why did you create a new moniker to post here?
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:24 pm
Have you met every police officer in the US, on which to base this conclusion?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 5:18 pm
You seem to live in an era of police paranoia..
If the police are so scared of children with toy guns..
Maybe they should find a less freaked out paranoid profession to make a living..
I can get them a job that pay just as well and doesn’t involve all that paranoia..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 6:45 pm
they didnt know it was fake you idiot!! jesus you act like they knew it was fake and just killed him, it looked like a real gun and fired on him when he reached for it after he was told to put his hands up do you even know how to read properly???
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 7:31 pm
I assume you are looking for some sort of response….
keep waiting…
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:50 pm
do you have a brain?
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 3:54 pm
Yes I do, and I have put out logical statements unlike you who only says shut your face. And holds onto the innocents of the world and clearly doesn’t see what happens in the world around them, examples are children used in war time, in africa, etc, children are innocent yes but they are also easily molded, molded to do good or bad and when told to put up their hands and they disobey and pull out their weapon then no I do not believe they have the right to stay innocent at that time and place.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:57 pm
nonsense, we are not africa…why is it all you do is reference wars in black countries, are you obsessed and hiding from anonymous and using a new moniker?
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 6:44 pm
why no but it proves a point that children aren’t as innocent as you make them out to be witless wonder
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 4:03 pm
It’s about black vs. white. Who is at more risk of being killed by a cop.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/24/3571699/grand-jury-wont-charge-cops-in-wal-mart-killing-even-as-video-reveals-victim-never-pointed-his-gun/
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 4:04 pm
No shots had been fired, why assume it is a real gun and loaded? Why not assume it is kid with a toy gun in a park playing with a toy. That is what kids do. He may have been rude by pointing it at people but that does not deserve a death sentence.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:16 pm
So cops should wait until a couple of bullets go flying out of someone’s gun before treating it seriously? How much of a body count is acceptable for you before the cops treat it like a real gun?
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 5:37 pm
When you are dealing with children playing in a park, yes the cops should wait till a shot is fired before using lethal force. They should take evasive action like it might be loaded but not fire. Why didn’t the officer stand behind a tree or some other obstacle and negotiate? Common sense seems to have been lost with the police. Think before shooting and killing or don’t try and enforce the law. Pretty simple really. If you are not cut out to be a cop because you can’t think before shooting, then you shouldn’t be a cop in law enforcement.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 5:52 pm
So, who would you be willing to sacrifice? Another child? An innocent bystander? A family pet? Who catches the bullet before the police take action? I’m betting that if that kid had a real one and he shot one of your friends or somebody in your family with the cops standing right there, you would be asking why the cops didn’t shoot him sooner.
Hiding behind a tree and negotiating? And, again, had it been a real gun, the police wouldn’t have had line of sight and that kid could have killed someone in the process.
Try to forget all we have learned about the story since it happened and put yourself in the shoes of the police officers. They got a 911 call about someone waving a gun around and scaring people. The caller says that it MIGHT be a fake gun, but there is no confirmation of that assumption. You show up on the scene and as your vehicle approaches, you see the person in question (you don’t know his age) and a gun on the table. You then see him pick up the gun and tuck it into his waistband. You get out of your patrol car, knowing only that you just saw someone stick a gun in their pants. You draw your weapon and order them to raise their hands. Instead, they go for the gun. For all you know, they are intending to shoot you or someone else in the with it, so you have to make a split-second decision, so you shoot him to prevent him from shooting anyone else.
It’s only after the fact that you find out that it is a 12 year old kid and he’s carrying a replica gun and not a live firearm.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 6:07 pm
You are making a lot of assumptions again. What did he see and when, we don’t know. Could he have taken evasive action and stood behind a tree or some other object and talk, more than likely. We don’t know why he was putting the toy gun in his waist band, it could be that is just the easiest way to carry it. Why did he take out but not point at the officer, we don’t know, the officer killed the child so we don’t get to ask. The officer should of not put himself in a position where he had to make a split second decision, he should of taken cover and talked, he failed and a child is dead because of it.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:18 pm
Every article on this subject from every source states the same course of events. They are the events as I described them. Cops called. Show up. See kid conceal gun. Order kid to raise hands. Kid goes for gun instead. Kid gets shot. He didn’t point it at the officer because he didn’t make it that far. The moment he reached for that gun and began to pull it from his pants, he presented himself as an immediate threat and he was shot to neutralize that perceived immediate threat.
And no, the officer shouldn’t have taken cover and talked. Your repetition of that shows your ignorance of police procedure. He’s not a negotiator trying to talk a suicidal guy off a ledge or a hostage taker from freeing hostages. He’s a patrolman telling a person suspected of carrying a gun in a park to put his hands up.
None of the reports so far have stated that Tamir E. Rice (the kid) had any form of developmental disabilities, so he was old enough to know what “put your hands up” means. Tamir is the one who failed and THAT is why he’s dead.
Bottom line – If an armed police officer tells you to put your hands up, you put your damn hands up.
Had Tamir just done that, this wouldn’t be a story and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 7:30 pm
Yes, the officer should have tried to diffuse the situation that is why people don’t respect the police anymore. If the police don’t respect the public, why should the public respect the police, other than the threat of death? Sounds like an evil way of life that I will fight against.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:21 pm
Don’t you think that police officers families matter? If my family member was in law enforcement, I wouldn’t want him or her to wait and see if the gun is real, by being shot.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 4:15 pm
“Now if I was a cop, and told someone regardless of age to not reach for a gun and they did I would not allow them to take out that weapon and wait to see what happened regardless of the kids age.” So killing kids is okay?
De Colo November 23rd, 2014 at 4:17 pm
If the kid had a real gun and killed the cop, no one would care but the family but since the kid was shot while holding a gun that looked as realistic as it gets, then its a big deal
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Wrong bucko. But lets look at something else that is in play here. HE WAS 12 YEARS OLD.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 5:16 pm
So was a kid who killed his little brother and then himself. So was a kid who stabbed a 9 year old to death because he wanted to go to jail. So were the girls who committed the Slender Man attack. So was the kid who killed his younger brother trying to reenact a scene from a computer game.
His age is irrelevant. Being 12 years old doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to have a real gun and it doesn’t mean he can’t be a threat to himself or others.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 5:45 pm
It’s a big deal because the officer didn’t do his job. The officer didn’t take evasive actions, ignored what the information was about the situation and went in ready to shoot, killing a child. The officer didn’t treat the child like a child with a toy and explain that it was wrong to point it at people, he killed him instead. The officer had choices and made the wrong ones.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:39 pm
That is simply not true. No one here wants an officer shot and killed, by a 12 ye4ar old or anyone else. What we would like to see is better social skills taught at the academy, more community policing than shooting as a first option.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:04 pm
Shooting wasn’t the first option. The first option was to tell the kid to put his hands up. Had he done that, there would be no story here. He didn’t. That’s why he’s dead.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 8:17 pm
I’m talking about community policing, talking – defusing the situation, not the 3 seconds between the command and firing on him.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 3:41 pm
poor foul mouthed fool, getting all angry and stupid
Jan Lind November 23rd, 2014 at 3:57 pm
The officer was justified in this shooting. It doesn’t matter the age of the person holding the weapon, real or not. Someone called 911 because this little thug was trying to intimidate people. When he was told to put his hands up, he should have done just that instead of reaching for the perceived weapon. You can scream all you want about this being a child and over-reacting police but if I would have been the person in place of that officer, I would not have hesitated to put rounds into him.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Police are never justified to kill unarmed people or kids with toys. It’s their job to know when they are in danger and when they are not. This cop was never in danger.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:17 pm
The only reason you know that is because you read about it after the fact.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 4:29 pm
I knew well before this article that the police are shooting far to many people in this country, many are unarmed. Their training is flawed, they have a military style attitude where they shoot on contact, that’s NOT what we should expect from our police.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:31 pm
That’s a gross generalization and it is based on conjecture.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 4:36 pm
This little boy should be alive today, that’s not conjecture at all, it’s a fact. The rookie cop wasn’t experienced or trained well enough to deal with a kid with a toy gun. Remember, the initial report was someone with a gun…not a shooting incident.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 4:50 pm
How many times does it have to be said? IT IS NOT A TOY. How many people would need to be shot in your mind before the police treated a report of a kid with a gun as a report of a kid with a gun?
Here’s a picture. You have 2 seconds to determine how many of these guns are real and how many of them are airsoft. If you can’t do it, you would be dead several times had someone been carrying them.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 4:58 pm
So, any gun is a real gun in your world?
Perhaps children shouldn’t be allowed to have toys then?
If they were trained to know the difference between a park filled with kids with a report of one pointing a gun at everybody and a situation where shots were fired, they would have more than 2 seconds to decide what to do. If they are trained to approach every situation the same then innocent people will continue to be killed.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 5:10 pm
It is not a firearm, but it is a gun. Some of them can fire projectiles at speeds greater than 440 miles per hour. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?
How many different times do you have to hear that it is not a toy before it sinks in? The manufacturer says it’s not a toy. The box says it’s not a toy. The instructions say it is not a toy. That means it is NOT A TOY. They are replica guns.
Children should not have airsoft guns because they are not toys. You would prefer there to be a body count before cops take the situation seriously? How many people would have to be shot? 1? 2? 3?
Is there another language that I need to write “Not a toy” in for you to understand it?
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 5:15 pm
How many people were reported shot by his not a toy gun? How many died? None?
Exactly what should have been the alert level in the cops mind when he approached the kid, knowing that no one was shot, no one died, no ambulance calls were made, no reports of shots fired?
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 5:17 pm
So you’d prefer to wait for someone to be shot?
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 5:20 pm
Of course not. I’d prefer the police know when to shoot and when not to. This situation never required lethal force and the cop should have known it based on the initial report that he dealing with a kid in the park.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 5:25 pm
Look around in this comment section and you will see several other places where I listed 12 year old kids who shot or stabbed other people. Cops get a call that a kid is waving a gun around and scaring the s**t out of people. It might be fake. It might not. The police can’t afford to wait and see if it’s real or not when the kid goes reaching for it after being confronted. They can’t afford to wait and see if a bullet comes out when the trigger is pulled or a bb comes out when the trigger is pulled. All they know is the kid has a gun and is reaching for it. That’s it. That’s all. He made the fatal mistake of reaching for it and he died because of it.
He never should have had it in the first place. His parents are the ones to blame in all of this.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 5:34 pm
The question we should be asking is when are parents going to start taking responsibility for the actions of their children? They never should have bought him that airsoft gun. They never should have allowed him to leave the house with it. They should have known that it is illegal for him to even have it in the park. They should have known that he was not mature enough to have proper judgement when handling it. They should have taught him how to handle it safely. They should have read the box where it said “For ages 18 and up” instead of buying it for him just because he wanted it.
It’s parents like these that buy computer games rated M (intended for ages 18 and up) for their 10-12 year old kids and then complain that they are too violent or gory.
It’s parents like these that need to learn how to use the word, “no.” If his parents hadn’t been so damned negligent and irresponsible, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 5:36 pm
I agree with you 100%, well said.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:18 pm
You are way off base. Would you allow somebody to point a gun at you and shoot, hoping that the gun isn’t real? If you say yes, I don’t believe you.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 8:50 pm
I didn’t read where it said he pointed the gun at the officer, in fact it said he didn’t. It looks more like he was taking it out to show the cop it was a bb gun and was shot ….
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 10:52 pm
He was reaching for the gun. The police officer did exactly what he was trained to do. He shouldn’t wait around for a suspect to take the gun out and shoot him. I don’t own a gun, but I can tell you that if I were in that situation and had a gun, I’d shoot it, rather than take the chance of being shot.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 11:13 pm
AH!! Yes…What he was trained to do!! And his training is flawed since a 12 year old child is dead!!
Had he reacted with caution and kept a distance until the situation could be calmed, he wouldn’t have been, as you claim, forced to gun the kid down.
katyladygolfer November 24th, 2014 at 9:03 am
You are woefully naive; keep his distance? The kid had a gun, not a sword. Bullets travel fast and far. Yes a 12 year old is dead, but I don’t believe the officer did anything wrong. The fault was the child’s. Yes, it was a big mistake, the kid’s mistake, not the officer’s.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 5:48 pm
spam king strikes again
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:26 pm
I agree with you on some points, but what are your views on Open Carry? I’m just curious.
I see it as the same issue. I also see that Open Carry groups have desensitized the public, so much so, that we’re having this debate whereas in recent years gone by, it would be a no-brainer.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:44 pm
Open carry is fine when it is legal, though just because it’s legal, it doesn’t mean that everyone has to do it. There are times and places when carrying it is unnecessary and only done to be inflammatory. Common sense should be applied to the situation.
However, in this particular case, there is a city law against carrying bb/pellet/airsoft guns in public.
Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or about a public place.
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:39 pm
No, I was not asking you about this particular case. I had a sense that you support Open Carry.
I agree that this boy did not show common sense. By the way, if an Open Carry activist were shot (it would never happen. They run in gangs filled with white ‘patriots’), would you still come to the same conclusion?
That’s a rhetorical question.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:06 pm
Regardless of you saying that it was a rhetorical question, I’m going to answer it anyway. If an open carry activist was shot by a police officer for making a play for his weapon after being told to put his hands up, yes. I would still come to the same conclusion. Skin color doesn’t mean anything. If you’re told to put your hands up and you reach for your gun instead, you’re going to get shot. Plain and simple.
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:15 pm
The devil is in the details. For example, an Open Carry activist was asked for his ID. He resisted. The cop explained that he’s carrying and he wants to make sure he’s legal. The guy said no, it is his right to carry and he hasn’t broken any laws.
Miraculously (heavy sarcasm), he was not shot. In the video comment thread, I was ridiculed by Open Carry extremists for saying he should have shown his ID.
I have no problem with responsible gun ownership. I do have big issues with Open Carry supporters though. The two don’t jive.
Cozmo1138 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:26 pm
Great point, and I agree with you. BUT…reason should also be applied to the situation. Is it REASONABLE ENOUGH to assume that a 12-year-old’s gun is real AND THAT HE’LL SHOOT YOU WITH IT? What I mean by that is, is it unreasonable to expect that the police officer would have recognized the kid was about 12, and taken an extra five seconds to say, “Put your hands up in the air, kid. If you grab your gun, we’ll shoot you.”
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:34 pm
Regardless of the accuracy of your statement, the child thought it was a toy.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 8:06 pm
Wrong, I have a lot more than 2 seconds because I am not going to put myself in front of a gun, I am going to take cover and talk like a rational human. I am going to try and figure out what is going on before I take action that might get someone hurt or killed. If and when shots are fired the scenario changes, until then it is time to talk and babysit. Time is on my side until a shot is fired, no crime has been committed and the suspect is just a suspect until a trial determines guilt.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:14 pm
While you were running for cover, you would have been shot by two of them. If not you, then someone else would be shot while you were trying to negotiate and you would have to explain to the victims’ families why you didn’t stop the shooter before they killed anyone.
No crime has been committed? Are you forgetting this?
Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in
his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or
about a public place.
That = crime committed. You don’t need to go through trial in order for a crime to have been committed. Were that the case, then you’re saying that serial killers who haven’t been caught yet didn’t kill anyone. Try explaining that to the families.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 7:16 pm
No, it’s Darwinism plain and simple. He pulled a stupid move, waving a real-looking gun around, and didn’t comply with a police command. He was shot because he was ignorant.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:32 pm
No, he was shot because he was young and his frontal lobe not fully formed. Both the child and the rookie officer could have done better.
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:47 pm
most children are ignorant.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 10:55 pm
Most young children are ignorant, but a 12 year old has the mental capacity to recognize the authority of a police officer. He knows that the officer has a gun. But not this kid, so there’s the Darwinism at work.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 8:42 pm
No it isn’t. It was a kid being a kid. You tell a kid to stop, he’s liable to run, you tell a kid to lay down, he’s liable to get up, you tell a kid to be quiet, he’s liable to start yelling, that’s what kids do!!
They are not little adults who know better, in a lot of cases they simply don’t know.
This kid made some mistakes, he shouldn’t have tried to hide the gun and he should have never pulled it out. The cop made mistakes to, he should have stayed a safe distance away until he could determine what the threat level was. Obviously, the threat level was low since it was a toy gun.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 10:46 pm
I don’t know about you, but most kids would listen to a police officer. Kids don’t listen to parents, but police officers are not the same old familiar authority figures and are, therefore, obeyed. I’ve been a teacher for years; I know that kids are not little adults, but thanks for your opinion.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 8:15 pm
Why is it white felons who are shooting at LEO’s w/AR15’s are taken w/o injury and black children and young men are shot dead w/TOYS in their hands?
Brian K EyeRappino November 23rd, 2014 at 4:26 pm
He wasn’t unarmed. He had a gun
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 4:27 pm
brietbart swill
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:15 pm
Tracy – this is a perfect example of what I was saying. There is no indication this reader has anything to do with Biebart, I read all of his Disqus comments as well as reviewing his FB page. His comment is civil and accurate. The child had a gun, it doesn’t mean that I think he should have been shot but attacking this reader serves no purpose.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 8:26 pm
Yes, his history is Carla. I made sure, very sure. I do not like angering the people who run the site I enjoy.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:13 pm
Then we must have been looking at different histories because the poster in question did not have any posts to Briebart, Drudge or any conservative site. His FB page had no posts and had liked no fringe or conservative sites. Telling people to shut up is not an effective means of communication. I could understand if it were a last resort, but you start with these comments. Please consider that you, along with the other regulars are the face of the site and in part you represent Alan.com.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 9:16 pm
I only said that after he told me and stony, I threw his words back. I took what you said seriously
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:03 pm
I don’t believe you did Tracy, because you continue to address people in the same manner. Please try and offer your view instead of attacking theirs. I have real assholes to deal with, please don’t force me to address an issue with someone whose opinion I agree.
Cozmo1138 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:22 pm
No, he had a toy gun. Because he was a kid. That’s not even the same as being armed. If he’d been even 16 and went for the gun, that would have been different. But it was a child. Children sometimes need things explained to them slowly and carefully.
My guess is the warning was something like, “POLICE!!GETYOURHANDSINTHEAIRGET’EMUPNOWISAIDGETEMUPPUTYOURHANDSINTHEAIRBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!”
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 8:15 pm
Why is it white felons who R shooting at LEO’s w/AR15’s are taken w/o injury and black children and young men are shot dead w/TOYS in their hands?
Brian K EyeRappino November 23rd, 2014 at 4:27 pm
And if you think the police are supposed to be shot at first so that they know the gun is real, your an idiot
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 7:57 pm
The officer should have taken cover and talked first.
native new yorker November 23rd, 2014 at 5:08 pm
This is a tragedy. Cops have to assume that the gun is real.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 7:56 pm
No they don’t. They can take evasive maneuvers, acting like the gun is real with out shooting and try and talk the situation down, then determine whether the gun is real or not.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 8:14 pm
Why is it white felons who are shooting at LEO’s w/AR15’s are taken w/o injury and black children and young men are shot dead w/TOYS in their hands?
eyelashviper November 23rd, 2014 at 4:08 pm
“little thug”??….well, your bigotry is evident.
Kids have played with toy guns since they were invented, so it is OK in your angry little mind to shoot them…or is it just black kids?
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 4:22 pm
careful, calling racists racist gets you deleted
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:24 pm
Since when?
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:09 pm
I deleted some of Tracy’s comments when she called other readers racists. But she deserved it.
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:33 pm
Good call.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:58 pm
I may have over-stepped. I posted a featured statement addressing the out of control posting issue.
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:11 pm
You did not overstep:-)
Sean Barrett November 23rd, 2014 at 6:05 pm
Thug Life
Anomaly 100 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:24 pm
He won’t be back.
Jan Lind November 24th, 2014 at 2:29 pm
Yeah, but how many stupid enough to reach for it when a cop approached. Also, I said “thug”, not “black thug” so just keep trying to reach.
Jones November 23rd, 2014 at 4:52 pm
It’s not the first time a child has been shot with a toy gun. Lethal force is used on children because the risk of a toy gun being real is too great for brave police who put their own safety first. Never take a personal risk just to avoid killing a child…
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:42 pm
well if a man can be shot in a toy section of a toy store holding a toy gun, no one should be surprised by this.
Ryan James Helman November 23rd, 2014 at 5:18 pm
the person mention that it was probably a fake gun, kid was just screwin around at the park…. hell his family was probably around there somewhere. and jan lind how can he be such a huge thug? he wasn’t intimidating anyone at all he was just having a little fun. you sound like a thug to me
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 5:47 pm
the family lived right across the street, he was there most days having fun. The toy gun was not his and his family was not allowed to go to their child before the ambulance took him away. The caller said it was a kid on the swing set, the story changed to make him a more “menacing” child
JordanM November 23rd, 2014 at 6:01 pm
See? This is why having fake guns that look enough like real guns is fucking stupid. Paint them bright orange or blue or something. I’m sorry the kid got shot, but he’s twelve. That’s old enough to follow instructions from police. I know it might seem like bad cops with the recent state of the US, but I really think this guy was just nervous and worried.
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:41 pm
i think the kid was likely very confused at the command. not realizing how serious the situation had become and was clearly “not thinking” as 12 y/o usually don’t do. he knows its a toy and so in his mind why doesn’t anyone else. as far as the color goes, he should have been instructed by the parents not to take the tip off. they are there for a reason. my son has several and they were never allowed to remove or color over the orange tip, let alone take them off our property.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 8:13 pm
Why is it white felons who are shooting at LEO’s w/AR15’s are taken w/o injury and black children and young men are dead w/TOYS in their hands?
Cozmo1138 November 23rd, 2014 at 6:31 pm
Really saddened by this story. This just seems like a massive failure on so many fronts.
Failure of the kid to put his hands up when the cops told him to.
Failure of the parents to teach their kid not to point guns at people, and to comply with law enforcement when they ask you to do something.
Failure of the dispatcher to pass along the caller’s comment (which the caller made TWICE) that the gun was “probably fake.” This information could have changed the mindset of the police as they approached the situation.
Failure of the officers (as a pair) to fully assess the situation (and I know I wasn’t there, so take it with a grain of salt). According to the news reports, the cops drove up and saw the toy gun sitting on a table under the pavilion with a bunch of people sitting around it, and the kid just walked up and put the gun in his waistband.
Failure of the officers to realize that a 12-year-old kid sometimes needs consequences explained to them. Whatever you choose to think, 12-year-olds are still kids. And sometimes kids need things explained. I fail to see how the rookie officer (or the veteran riding along with him) couldn’t have said, “Put your hands up, kid. Do not reach for the gun or we will shoot you.” Because I don’t know of any 12-year-old who WANTS to get shot if they can avoid it.
Failure of the rookie cop to slow his roll a bit, take a deep breath, and not just REACT REACT REACT REACT as it appears he did.
Failure of the veteran cop to coach his rookie partner and talk him through it.
All of these failures culminated in a kid getting killed, when it could have ended in a ride home in a squad car and a conversation with the parents about gun safety and the dangers of kids waving around toy guns.
Trevor Miller November 23rd, 2014 at 6:57 pm
This is the kids fault, not the guns. Stop blaming replica guns just because they had something to do with it. A good parent would tell them what to do and what not to do with it. If you buy a child something like that, you make sure they know what the rules are. In Ohio, you have to be 18 to buy an airsoft gun. This kid obviously isn’t 18, which means an adult or guardian purchased it for him. It should be their fault for this, for not telling him what to do.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:07 pm
Not so sure about beating up the parent – he’s 12. A time of rebellion for most kids and a complete lack of reason. I’m not assigning blame to anyone but to expect the child to make adult decisions and expect the parents to know everything a 12 year old does is unrealistic.
Trevor Miller November 23rd, 2014 at 7:29 pm
I do agree with what you’re saying. It just angers me when something like this happens and everyone starts blaming replica guns.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:31 pm
I agree that its never the guns fault, and this story aside – it’s always some irresponsible gun owner that owns the responsibility.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 8:12 pm
Why is it white felons who are shooting at LEO’s w/AR15’s are taken w/o injury and black children and young men are shot dead w/TOYS in their hands?
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 8:19 pm
the parents did NOT buy the gun, it was a friends. He lived across the street and was usually there playing, people knew him
GreenLantern November 23rd, 2014 at 7:15 pm
This is not the officer’s fault. The kid was an idiot and decided waiving a fake gun around. It looked real
Cozmo1138 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:19 pm
But he wasn’t waving it around. It was in his waistband.
GreenLantern November 23rd, 2014 at 7:20 pm
“The guy keeps pulling it in and out…it’s probably fake, but he’s scaring the s*** out of people,” he added.
Cozmo1138 November 23rd, 2014 at 7:36 pm
That was before the cops arrived. And why was that bit of information “it’s probably fake” not passed along? Cops need every bit of intel in order to do their jobs properly.
But I do see where I misinterpreted your post…I thought you were saying the kid was waving the gun around in front of the cops.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 8:19 pm
child
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 7:57 pm
Ask yourself why is it that white felons armed w/AR15’s who have been shooting at LEO’s are taken alive w/o injury and black children and teens are shot dead w/toys in their hands?
Marvin Rhone November 23rd, 2014 at 9:47 pm
The KID was 12 years old! Calling him an idiot for being a KID says a lot about you. What if when you were playing dress up with your mom’s rings and what not, you went outside a pointed your mom’s ring at people and a cop shoots you? Spandex and all!
Debra L Brown November 23rd, 2014 at 7:18 pm
I’m not gun expert, but even I could tell that wasn’t a real gun. And a question having nothing to do with placing blame, why do cops always go for a kill shot? An arm that’s holding the gun? A shot to the leg to knock them down? What is wrong with those options?
GreenLantern November 23rd, 2014 at 7:19 pm
I’m sure you wouldn’t be able to tell if it was a real gun. He removed the orange tip
Gerald Vimont November 23rd, 2014 at 7:55 pm
You don’t have a freakin’ clue do you???? First of all, with a gun REPLICA and the orange safety indicator taken off it’s very hard to tell if a gun is real or not unless you actually see the barrel of the gun. Cops go for the “kill shot” because they are taught from day 1 to “shoot to stop”. Going for a thin part of the body like an arm or a leg is not shooting to stop. You pretty much always go for the torso. Post again when you actually have a clue.
edmeyer_able November 23rd, 2014 at 8:06 pm
Why is it white felons who are shooting at LEO’s w/AR15’s are taken w/o injury and black children and young men are shot dead w/TOYS in their hands?
RonHess November 23rd, 2014 at 7:37 pm
While this is a tragedy, it happens quite a lot these days, due to the military mentality ingrained into police now. But we only seem to see it hyped on the national media if the victim is not a white person. Everyone has heard about the Trayvon Martin shooting, but has anyone made a study of all the attacks made upon white people in the months after, where the assailant even specifically says “this is for Trayvon,” or words to that effect? Just like the LA Riots in 1992, this was a case of media specifically inciting random acts of violence against white people, and Zimmerman was not even white himself. And have any of you here heard the name Jonathan Foster? He was a 12 year old little red-haired white boy who was tortured to death with a blowtorch. This would probably have made national news if the assailant had not been a black woman. You “liberals” see only what you want to see, and I will not be surprised if this comment is censored as well.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 8:21 pm
why are you deflecting from the actual story?
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 8:30 pm
This liberal sees that Zimmerman got away with murder.
Lynn November 23rd, 2014 at 8:50 pm
Why does it have to be liberals and just not PEOPLE? I watch a lot of crime and justice on tv and they hide and or don’t tell the jurors so much, how can they make decision based on such?
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:02 pm
I only used the liberal term in response to the comment.
RonHess November 23rd, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Exactly. That’s what you want to see because you go from an almost religious supposition that blacks are not any more violent than whites, while the crime statistics prove this to be in error. This is also probably why blacks are incarcerated more often and wind up in more altercations with the police. It has nothing to do with white cops hating black people. This has only gotten worse since the 60s, when people began making excuses for and thus encouraging black violence, and then from about 1990 when the “gangsta – thug life” culture became popularized and young blacks followed this as an example. No one seems interested in any real efforts to get the black community out of this rut. It’s always about blaming “whitey” for being “racist.” If we could get rid of this thug culture, we could also get rid of militarized cops as well (which would lower the police brutality against EVERYONE – yes, they terrorize and murder whites as well.) As to your assertion that Zimmerman got away with murder, would justice have been served if Zimmerman had been disarmed by gun control legislation and Trayvon Martin had been free to continue bashing his skull on the sidewalk until Zimmerman died? Well, if that had happened, none of us would ever have heard about that case in the first place, so we could all go on thinking everything was just fine with the world.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:57 pm
No, because Zimmerman had no business stalking someone committing no crime and then shooting him dead. Period.
Dashing28 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:53 pm
I hadn’t heard of the story, but I’m guessing that you’re saying that justice wasn’t served and that the black woman got away with it, right??
Oh wait. I just read the artlcle and the woman got life in jail….so what’s your point?
Unfortunately, crime happens. It’s tragic and terrible every time, regardless of the race of the victim or the perpetrator.
The issue here is not the existence of crime. The issue is that there is a disproportionate amount of cases where innocent black boys and men are killed and the perpetrators of violence that are non-white never receive justice.
George Zimmermann is free and he killed an innocent young black boy. As did the cops who killed Sean Bell. Darren Wilson will go free. As will all of the cops who choked the black man in Staten island to death for selling cigarettes. As will the cop who shot the black man in the gas station who wasn’t doing anything wrong. As will the cops who shot the black man in Walmart who was carrying a toy gun.
RJ November 23rd, 2014 at 7:46 pm
Wow…
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 7:55 pm
Please note: I have read all comments on this post and have deleted a number of them on both sides of the argument. We encourages civil debate but will not tolerate name calling, aggressive and hateful behavior, posts that are clearly invalid or gish galloping. I will begin deleting posts that violate the these rules and ban those that find themselves unable to follow the rules and act like adults, regardless of whether you are a regular reader or not.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 10:18 pm
Does that include comments from mods?
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:24 pm
Seriously? ALL comments.
Juliet Holth November 23rd, 2014 at 8:01 pm
Sad and tragic. Its all about guns. But the situation could have been change if the dispatcher relay the specific info of the caller that the gun was fake. The police officer could have the proper way how to handle the situation. This kid should not point the gun to anybody. Parents should educate their kids the consequences of using guns improperly real or fake. Its not advisable giving our kids toy guns as gifts. Toy manufacturers are making these toy guns now sophisticated and look so real.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 8:17 pm
the original call did say a KID on the swings has a “fake” gun, but still he is scaring people.
brunostrange November 23rd, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Ah, the kid was black. It all makes sense now. It’s quite clear that in the United States, if a suspect is black, the de facto law is that cops shoot first, ask questions later.
Lynn November 23rd, 2014 at 8:48 pm
Dumb. Obviously kid knew what he was doing, thing is he didn’t think he was going to die. Act a fool look what happens. Maybe he was 51/50?
The cops need to slow their roll, take some classes on how to deal with this even more so that they are on the radar.
brunostrange November 23rd, 2014 at 8:58 pm
What’s so dumb about it? Police kill black men and boys in this country as a matter of course. Just a few days ago, an unarmed black man was killed in the NYPD while literally doing nothing wrong. Cop was scared to see a black man in a staircase is all. A few months ago, another black man was killed in a Wal Mart for playing with a toy gun. A toy gun that was sold at the Wal Mart. Shot dead by a trigger-happy pig. In Utah, not too long ago, a black teenager walking around with a PLASTIC SWORD was shot dead by another trigger happy pig (by the way, can you guess how many of the cops were charged with a crime? Here’s a hint – the number is smaller than 1).
Now go look at YouTube. There are countless videos of white “open carry activists” walking around city streets, malls and fast food joints waving their assault rifles around. Not toy guns – real guns, big ones. Not a single incident where the police accidentally shoots anyone, let alone engage in a confrontation. Not a one.
So yes, as I posted above, it’s quite clear that if the suspect is black, the police in the United States will always shoot first. The protesters in Ferguson have it right: Black Lives Matter.
Dave Clark November 23rd, 2014 at 9:25 pm
I don’t have the facts on lives lost by cops that shoot and kill when it is later realized it was a mistake. The facts at Ferguson are also not something that I am that familiar with as to what actually happened. Seems like those facts are convenient to whichever side it is coming from. But, if confronted by a 12 year old who has a gun (not known to be fake) the thoughts that would be running through my head immediately is that he could be part of a gang to have a gun at that age. I would not be thinking it is probably fake and ask him to hand it over to me.
As for statistics, does anyone know the percentage of kids (say 12 to 16) that are part of a gang – and how many are minorities (black or Hispanic) compared to Caucasian? It is not race that would be making me think what to do, but rather “profiling” if this is a wannabe gang member. If I lived in an area where the gang members were predominately Caucasian – then I would be thinking the same thing if a 12 year old Caucasian kid had a gun.
I don’t profess to know what cops are thinking – or if they have a bias or not toward minorities. Depends on what they have experienced while on patrol. But, if you have an attitude that all cops are just going to shoot you are beat the hell out of you, then your first reaction is going to be to resist rather than follow commands. That is where the problems start and usually never end well. I think all cops have a short fuse – and once it is lit, it goes fast when someone is not following their instructions that are meant to keep everyone safe.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 9:46 pm
Please share a link to one of those “countless videos” that show any “open carry activists” “waving their assault rifles around”. Just one.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:49 pm
From this site or any?
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Any.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:17 pm
Then scroll down. I offered plenty.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:11 pm
Well, a majority of criminals are black so…
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:38 pm
My apologies, that wasn’t me but someone that created a similar account. working to purge it now.
Melissa November 23rd, 2014 at 8:29 pm
Im not sure what race has to do with this…the boy was told to raise his hands..instead he pulls the gun out…a gun with the orange tip removed..the orange tip that alerts ppl that the guns not a real gun…so im not seeing how this is race related? Or the officers fault..color is irrelevant.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 8:33 pm
Regardless of this case: Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.
The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 8:59 pm
Tell them not to threaten cops and they won’t get shot.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:01 pm
Like John Crawford after he picked up a toy gun in Walmart? That kind of threat?
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:10 pm
maybe if a majority of them aren’t criminals
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 9:36 pm
This article isn’t about Walmart.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 9:46 pm
You stated: Tell them not to threaten cops and they won’t get shot. Your great idea doesn’t always apply – hence my example.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Sure, mistakes happen. But being unarmed and white doesn’t always keep blacks from killing you, either.
InfernoShark November 23rd, 2014 at 10:19 pm
Didn’t you just imply that it wasn’t a race thing by stating “If I had meant blacks I would have said blacks” in response to my comment? Now you bring up race though?
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:21 pm
What does that have to do with police shootings? Except for the fact that whites are shot less than blacks by law enforcement.
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 10:23 pm
that’s rich coming from a Klan member.
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 10:10 pm
wait. i see. you didn’t like her response. you said “them.” “them” would include crawford who was murdered by a cop and not threatening anyone. he was one of a vast majority of unarmed black males that were killed/murdered by a cop. there have been more than 20 cases of unarmed black males murdered by cops since Diallo and GOD only knows what that number is prior to his murder at the hands of a cop.
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 9:53 pm
took the words right out of my mouth.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 9:02 pm
who is them?
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 9:36 pm
The vast majority of people shot by cops.
InfernoShark November 23rd, 2014 at 10:03 pm
No you meant blacks. Let it all out you racist.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 10:14 pm
If I had meant blacks I would have said blacks.
tiredoftea November 23rd, 2014 at 10:26 pm
Yeah, let’s blame the victims. It’s so much easier than thinking.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:27 pm
Yeah, he’s gone. It was a section 8 comment on RS that did it for me.
greenfloyd November 23rd, 2014 at 10:33 pm
These are vital numbers that remind us America is a country at war with itself. Again!
Dashing28 November 23rd, 2014 at 8:42 pm
I saw the headline on facebook, which didn’t state the race of the kid and i KNEW with 100 percent certainty that the kid was black, but I hoped I was wrong. Not because I wanted to see a non-black child tragically shot, but because I knew that this would be yet another in a series of stories where young innocent black men are killed because they’re not given the benefit of the doubt.
It’s a boy. They were told it was probably a gun. And the kid didn’t point the gun at them. He didn’t deserve to be shot. No one can know for sure, but to outright deny that race may have been a factor in their decision is ridiculous.
Race and class played a factor. If this was in a wealthy white neighborhood in Cleveland the kid probably would have not even been pepper sprayed.
Melissa November 23rd, 2014 at 8:51 pm
No one says he deserves to be shot!! He pulled an illegal gun out of his waist band…but what he did wrong will never be the issue…if a black person is shot,,its racism!! period!!
Dashing28 November 23rd, 2014 at 9:03 pm
Race played a factor. A big one. Denying that is very very strange especially when the facts bear out that this happens disproportionally to black people.
I don’t know if the cops a racist. I don’t know what it’s in his heart. Neither do you, but it likely plated a factor.
Be honest with yourself for a minute. If you heard the story “Cops shoot and kill unarmed man” what race would you assume the man is?
ATOMICKRAKIN November 23rd, 2014 at 9:35 pm
Your another retarded race baiting P.O.S STFU and die!
tiredoftea November 23rd, 2014 at 9:39 pm
You’re gone, asshole!
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:11 pm
Is that all those comments in the deleted folder?
tiredoftea November 23rd, 2014 at 10:12 pm
Yup! I don’t ban too many but that fuck more than deserved it!
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:14 pm
Someone created another account in my name and started posting racists comments. There were only two but I panicked. Comgen rocks by the way.
tiredoftea November 23rd, 2014 at 10:25 pm
Alan should hire him to straighten this place out!!
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:28 pm
I was so lucky (and happy) that he was so easily reachable and willing to help.
tiredoftea November 23rd, 2014 at 10:32 pm
Yes, he’s a good guy.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Yes, yes he did.
Melissa November 23rd, 2014 at 11:18 pm
so you are assuming the cops racist..do we even know the cops race….all this assuming!!
Dashing28 November 23rd, 2014 at 11:24 pm
Ummm….did you read what I wrote, like at all?…fine ill type it again.
“I don’t know if the cops a racist. I don’t know what it’s in his heart. Neither do you, but it likely played a factor”
Melissa November 24th, 2014 at 1:25 am
you also said race played a BIG factor..but you are just assuming that it did!! Id say the GUN played a big factor…but everyone’s overlooking that because the kid was black…a child’s dead its awful, lets have a race war over it!!
Dashing28 November 24th, 2014 at 2:39 am
Yes, of course the gun played a big factor. No gun, no death. Happy? But race did as well.
It’s easy to make your argument against someone who 1) claimed the cop was a racist and 2) called for a race war
Unfortunately for you, I did not do either of those things. It’s much harder to argue against facts. Like given the disproportionate amount of times cops have user excessive force on black people and killed innocent black folks, it’s reasonable to posit that race plays a factor in the decision a cop makes when dealing with black people. Especially when lethal force is used.
So rather than turning this into an immediate cause to decry the cop is a racist or to say that this had absolutely nothing to do with race the better solution is to figure out why these stories keep arising. And if prejudices influences cops choices address that issue rather than skirting it.
Why is looking into that a bad thing? Don’t you get tired of hearing these stories?
Melissa November 24th, 2014 at 11:09 pm
but they only ARISE as race issues because you make them race issues…white people get shot too…there are more black ppl committing crimes then white ppl..though there’s more white ppl in the country then black,..its easy to say more black ppl get shot when more black ppl are the ones committing crimes…that doesn’t make the white cop a racist…smfh, if a black cop shoots someone..is that a race issue as well? nah!
Dashing28 November 25th, 2014 at 3:20 am
After what just happened, I’m done talking about this because it’s making me upset. It’s very difficult to maintain discourse and to try to have an open minded debate after what just took place tonight. I’m done. Have a good life.
whatthe46 November 25th, 2014 at 4:05 am
count on one hand how many unarmed white males have been murdered by a black cop. count how many white guys (other than the homeless guy in N.M.) that were killed/murdered by white cops on one hand. and there are not more than black people committing crimes than white people, get that straight.
Melissa November 25th, 2014 at 8:03 am
LOL…check your facts..and then we can get that straight.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 8:58 pm
What a crock. If you wait until the gun is pointing at you, you die. Pulling a gun is not putting your hands up. The sad part of the story is that the kid was an idiot and got himself shot.
Dashing28 November 23rd, 2014 at 9:10 pm
Firstly, an innocent child is dead and that’s tragic no matter the circumstances.
You, sir, are a horrible person for blaming a 12 year old dead kid playing with a toy and calling him an idiot.
The cop should have used judgement should know when lethal force should and shouldn’t be used and was told the gun was probably a toy.
i REPEAT if the kid was a 12 year old in a wealthy white neighborhood he’d still be alive.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 9:41 pm
First of all, it wasn’t a “toy”. Toys don’t shoot. Secondly, the cops weren’t told that some random guy on the phone, who may or may not know anything about guns, thought it might have been “fake”. Thirdly, you’re right that it probably wouldn’t have happened if it was a rich white kid, because HE WOULD HAVE PUT HIS HANDS UP. And your opinion of me is irrelevant.
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 9:49 pm
b.s.
Dashing28 November 23rd, 2014 at 10:22 pm
and you’re racist too. Wonderful.
Ian M. Johnson November 23rd, 2014 at 10:44 pm
Not on a military installation! I grew up on bases all my life. This kid was in the 5th or 6th grade, and was old enough to KNOW BETTER!
whatthe46 November 23rd, 2014 at 11:55 pm
kids judgment are very different than adults which is why they aren’t treated the same. they do stupid things without thought of the consequences. he was likely as confused and frightened by being approached when he knew he wasn’t doing anything wrong. in his little undeveloped brain, he could very well have been attempting (which makes sense) to show the officers that it wasn’t a real gun. but, i guess you never took that into account.
RonHess November 23rd, 2014 at 11:31 pm
Wrong. Cops shoot people all the time, and they don’t have to be poor and black. This blonde white man was gunned down because some idiot cop couldn’t tell the difference between a water sprayer and a gun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6S7LRrCru8
Carla Akins December 1st, 2014 at 1:44 pm
Yes they do. However they shoot and kill a black man every 28 hours, a white one every 42 days.
disqus_daK05Q2zCX November 24th, 2014 at 2:49 am
Why would a parent allow their kid to play with a gun that looked real to begin with?
tracey marie November 24th, 2014 at 6:05 am
His parents did not, it belonged to a friend
steve November 24th, 2014 at 3:22 am
Who’s the idiot? A gun, you tell him to put his hands up, he reaches for it, if you wait for him to point it at you you’ll be dead. Probably a toy is not definitely a toy. Cops do a tough job and they don’t have much time to make a judgement call. Put yourself in the cops shoes, legitimate life and death situation. REPEAT yourself all you want, you don’t know.
Dashing28 November 24th, 2014 at 10:45 am
“Who’s the idiot?”
No one’s an idiot. I took issue with the asshole calling the dead kid an idiot. And I wonder if it was a blonde girl who got shot if folks would so cavalierly call her an “idiot” or just call it a tragedy…
” Cops do a tough job and they don’t have much time to make a judgement cal”
That’s exactly what they’re supposed to do, make judgment calls. I’m surprised that people are so quick to defend it. I know cops, a lot of them. And the reaction from them about this is that a veteran cop likely wouldn’t have shot the kid. So maybe it was a rookie mistake.
Either way it’s tragic.
motyme November 24th, 2014 at 1:10 pm
This is a tragedy nevertheless,i think the 911 caller probably should have relayed the message better, if there was more details the officer could have used when approaching the child
Ian M. Johnson November 23rd, 2014 at 10:42 pm
LOL, I have to call you out on this one Melissa, but not for the reasons all the idiots will. I’m going to call you out because color is VERY relevant to this discussion. The damned orange cover was pulled off! This gun wasn’t ORANGE enough to prove it wasn’t a threat. DOWN WITH THE ORANGE OPRESSOR!. Orange is evil, blah blah…. Yeah, it’s sad the kid died, worse that he was that stupid. 12 years is roughly 5th-6th grade. He’s halfway done with his education. I’m fairly sure how to handle cops is addressed around 3rd grade during a “what do you want to be when you grow up?” bit.
Melissa November 24th, 2014 at 1:33 am
I made another comment on here about that..the orange tip was removed to make the gun look real..then you act like its real..and something horrible happened, im so sorry for his family, he was being a kid doing stupid stuff not thinking…but the cop didnt KNOW him or what was going on…its horrible all around.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 8:32 pm
Regarrdless of this case: Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.
The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.
Coco Drilo November 23rd, 2014 at 8:47 pm
Can these policemen try to at least wound these people first everytime they are not sure whether these types of toy guns look real or not? Was this kid actually shooting “the gun”? Had a hostage or acting like he was really putting other people’s life in real danger? If the person tries to defend himself/herself with “the gun” after being wounded, then you could take actions to the next level, but this??? Nowadays police don´t give me the sense of protection but a sense of fear, that I´d be unfairly arrested or even shot dead! Simply sad!
Dave Clark November 23rd, 2014 at 9:13 pm
how do you know he was not shooting to wound? pretty tough to make a shot that only wounds – and if it was a real gun, I can assure you the kid would not be shooting to wound. The better thing to do was to get into a position where he did not have to shoot – like pulling the car into a position where he could get out, stay behind the car and shout out the instructions. He would not have to shoot at all until he knew if it was real or not. Would be worth it to take a small risk of allowing someone the first shot than to lose a life over a mistake.
cowcharge November 23rd, 2014 at 8:56 pm
Morons, was it a BB gun or an Airsoft? Journalism is dead.
edmeyer_able November 24th, 2014 at 5:38 am
I think you’re missing the bigger picture.
Anchovy Garbanzo November 23rd, 2014 at 8:58 pm
Gun Culture
greenfloyd November 23rd, 2014 at 9:23 pm
Now we have a dead 12 year-old and a rokie cop with innocent blood on his hands. It seems clear to me, society, lawmakers and enforcers failed them both!
ATOMICKRAKIN November 23rd, 2014 at 9:33 pm
Innocent?
ATOMICKRAKIN November 23rd, 2014 at 9:34 pm
I say cull the herd by any means available!
DoomsdayProfit November 23rd, 2014 at 10:29 pm
This country is becoming a moral cesspit. This incident was a complete f****g disgrace, and people are arguing about whether a 12-year old kid should have known better than to disobey the order of a cop and so he deserved to get shot.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 10:49 pm
There’s a difference between “deserves” to be shot and “likely” to be shot. If you are standing in front of a police officer who tells you to put up your hands, and instead, you reach for your gun, you’re likely to be shot.
Realperson November 24th, 2014 at 12:11 am
i blame it on these manufacturers, dont make gun that look so damn realistic! If you going to make a gun look that realistic at least make something on it noticble that says, “Hey, im fake as hell.”
whatthe46 November 24th, 2014 at 12:25 am
the orange tip would have shown the gun to be a toy, but it was removed.
Carol Willmore November 24th, 2014 at 1:15 am
That is what the kid was using when the camera man in Omaha was killed. Police don’t have time to check and see if the gun is real or not. If these kids insist on carrying these thinking they are not going to draw fire they better think a whole lot more. when you see a gun and someone says that the person with it has been firing it you don’t stop and ask the kid if it is real or not……the police have to make that decision in a split second. It comes down to one or the other being shot……sad but true….
whatthe46 November 24th, 2014 at 1:53 am
this 12 y/o was not firing the toy gun at anyone. it was never reported that he was firing the gun either.
Carol Willmore November 25th, 2014 at 12:45 am
Now if you reread what I wrote you will see that I never mention that this kid had fired the gun….but he did remove the orange tip and at that point it looked like a real gun because that is what he wanted to to look like. If kids would think before doing something so stupid there would be less incidents like this one….
RonHess November 24th, 2014 at 4:15 am
Well, no matter what the reality, this will always be your perception, and that of many other blacks as well. Any multicultural country is always going to be a tyranny, because different groups perceive things differently, and if a member of an opposing group has any authority, injustice will be perceived. This is why we should break up the country into different homogeneous regions. Then your cops will always be black and mine will always be white, and we can all be happy. But the agenda is opposed to this, and the way I perceive things (and executive amnesty proves it) is that those in power (and this includes white mainstream Republicans) are hell bent on committing genocide against the white population. How else can it be perceived? We are denied government jobs and places in universities, where even foreign students get preference. Trade agreements and globalization have destroyed our job prospects in favor of the Chinese, feminism and an anti-male legal system has destroyed the family, so our people are mostly childless. Our percentage has gone from 90% in 1965 to 65% today, and by definition that includes people from India and the Middle East, so for people under 50, we are most definitely a minority now, and there is a segment of the population that just can’t wait to tear us limb from limb legally. We’ll wind up like Afrikaners, living in squatters’ camps, prohibited by law from attending professional school or even receiving charity. And the propaganda machine will convince everyone that we deserve to be wiped out. Will there be anyone to stand up for justice for my people? Not bloody likely.
tracey marie November 24th, 2014 at 6:06 am
stop with your white supremacist garbage
fahvel November 24th, 2014 at 4:18 am
kid was stupid and the officer was a chickenshit – bad combo.
fahvel November 24th, 2014 at 4:20 am
since when MUST a citizen obey a cop who is there to help folks cross the street and solve crimes and be a generally well respected member of the community, not someone outside the community?
si_ed November 24th, 2014 at 4:56 am
Read through the incident reports where police officers use lethal force (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States,_January_2013) and provide alternatives to how you would have handled the situation differently. You’ll note in most examples from the link I provided, death occurred because the person shot was either firing at Law Enforcement, reaching for a gun or endangering the life of a member of the public. Various sources have the nationwide figure at around 400 killed per year.
Note that in the same year, 27 police officers were ‘feloniously killed’ according to the FBI, 26 of these by firearms. Whilst the disparity is huge, much of this could be put down to police training in both tactical and firearms training,
Add to this an average of 50,000+ assaults on Law Enforcement by members of the public each year, with many officers sustaining life changing and career ending injuries. Theirs is a dangerous, thankless job (sometimes), engaging where most of us would run and trying to detain often violent, volatile suspects either in the act of committing a crime or suspecting of breaking the law.
What has happened in this instance is utterly tragic for all involved and should never have happened and whilst there will be questions asked and those critical of the officers actions, it would seem from initial reports that the officer acted as he has been trained when dealing with a suspect armed with a gun.
disqus_mktVETDhOA November 24th, 2014 at 11:35 am
Well, just about everything here is misleading.
It wasn’t a BB gun, it was an airsoft gun. The boy didnt just pull it from his waistband, he pointed it at the officers after they asked him to put it down. Go read the NYT article for the full actual story, without the clickbait cover photo making you think that its actually a picture of the shot 12 year old.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us/boy-12-dies-after-being-shot-by-cleveland-police-officer.html?_r=1
Jan Lind November 24th, 2014 at 2:31 pm
this kids actions were what got him killed. No one to blame but him.
whatthe46 November 24th, 2014 at 11:19 pm
STFU! how stupid can you be. nevermind.
Jan Lind December 1st, 2014 at 10:31 am
His death was the result of poor parenting.
mea_mark December 1st, 2014 at 11:05 am
And what explains your poor comment blaming the victims family instead of the trigger happy cops that came rushing in without thinking.
Jan Lind December 1st, 2014 at 1:20 pm
No. It explains that those cops were responding to someone brandishing a gun and he went to reach for it. Bang.
Carla Akins December 1st, 2014 at 1:42 pm
If you had actually watched the video you would know that they cops did not allow time for the boy to comply, then they lied in their incident report. They did not give repeated commands, he was not pointing the gun at anyone nor was he in a crowd but off by himself. Next time try reading more than the headline.
Jan Lind December 1st, 2014 at 1:24 pm
His death, though horrible, was his own fault.
mea_mark December 1st, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Still blaming the victim? Maybe you should watch the video of the event a few more times.
Sean Barrett December 1st, 2014 at 3:50 pm
As my thug life photo above shows. Kids play with toy guns…guns are pointed at people, thats how they work. Him mimicking things he’s seen on tv, movies and video games does not mean he was actively trying to scare or rob people while saying it was a real gun. Thats not what happened at all. The officer was at fault.
Loukas Martin Mandt November 25th, 2014 at 4:29 am
This shows how racist white american policemen are. They told him to take it out he was trying and then he was dead. Good Job America. Keep being racist Scumbags.
Jonathan November 25th, 2014 at 5:09 pm
I believe the articles state he was told to put his hands up. No cop orders someone to take out a concealed weapon.
Warman1138 November 27th, 2014 at 7:35 pm
I’ve seen the video on tv and this was murder, in about five seconds of driving up stopping alongside they had already shot him. There appeared to be no time to respond to any warning, they were discharging their weapons as they were exiting their patrol car.
Jan Lind December 1st, 2014 at 1:26 pm
Delete comments? You delete any comment that supports the cops. This boy was in the wrong. His death was an avoidable mistake on his part.
Carla Akins December 1st, 2014 at 1:43 pm
No. We delete comments that are offensive, agitate or threatening to other readers. You comments in all their glory can be found below.
Carla Akins December 1st, 2014 at 1:45 pm
Well, not everyone but certainly far too many.