Rios: Liberals ‘Hate Christianity’ And Love Radical Islam Because They’re Both From Satan
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Sandy Rios congratulates herself for being a “deep” spiritual person and asking “tough questions.” She is a deep thinker, too, who knows that liberals and radical Islam are basically the same, both of Satan, and both Christian haters.
“This is a spiritual battle and I don’t think people understand who they’ve signed up to serve, and it’s not God,” she said.
Rios then read an email from a listener who said, “Liberals don’t seem to be outraged about radical Islam but they hate Christianity. The only thing that I can figure is evil likes evil.”
“Yep,” Rios responded, “well, they have the same root, the same father, and that’s Satan himself.
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D.B. Hirsch is a political activist, news junkie, and retired ad copy writer and spin doctor. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.
nola878 May 29th, 2015 at 11:28 pm
I always thought my father was named William, but I guess this hatriot knows better than I do.
causeican May 30th, 2015 at 9:24 am
Have you checked his middle name? It could be there.
nola878 May 30th, 2015 at 11:50 am
Naw…starts with a G. 🙂
Chris May 30th, 2015 at 12:07 am
Hate to break it to the Islam haters, but Muslims worship the God of Abraham. Yes, they revere Muhammed as his prophet, but they worship the same God.
Christians worship the same God as Jews, but think the Jews screwed up God’s message. Muslims worship the same God as the Jews and Christians, but think the Jews and Christians screwed up God’s message.
Ain’t life grand?
whatthe46 May 30th, 2015 at 12:16 am
and those true “so called christians” like to touchy touchy, with little boys and girls. but, hey it’s all good. wtfE!!!!
burqa May 30th, 2015 at 11:49 pm
You lumping me in with the kid-touchers?
whatthe46 May 31st, 2015 at 7:12 am
you? NEVER!
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 4:07 pm
I keep asking and no one is able to tell me what a “true Christian” is, but I am a Christian and painting with such a broad brush lumps me in with them.
I know of no faith that has pedophilia as part of its doctrine and doubt any of them have no kid-touchers among them. The same is true of, say, thievery.
There is a tendency to ascribe all sorts of negative qualities to members of groups we do not belong to, even when those faults have nothing to do with what defines the group.
We see it on the Right with the tendency to take a few examples of immigrants, Muslims or gays behaving badly and then trying to claim this is a characteristic of the whole group.
I think this is a tendency to be resisted.
I imagine there are pedophiles in every major religion as well as every race and nationality. I think there are atheist kid-touchers, too. We should not brand the whole group by the actions of a few who get highlighted on sites like this where clicks for ad dollars trumps content.
The logical approach is one where we argue from the general to the specific and not the other way around.
Oh, and by the way, there are some cultures within Islam that approve of using children sexually. This is fairly common in Afghanistan, for example, where the men would be off in the mountains for long periods of time away from their wives and they’ll take along kids for this purpose. They have a history of doing the same thing to enemy captives. As I recall, this is described in Charlie Wilson’s War. This does not mean all Muslims are pedophiles.
Bunya June 1st, 2015 at 1:16 am
In my opinion, a “true Christian” is one who knows Kooks exist within all belief systems, and doesn’t feel the need to defend the whole Christian faith every time Pat Robertson opens his mouth.
In other words, they’re comfortable in their faith and are not offended by crazies. They don’t automatically assume that Alan (or whoever’s posting) is deliberately “branding” all Christians as crazy. Maybe Christians say and do more crazy things than other faiths. No big deal. Nobody cares. Maybe you should lighten up and not care as much either.
Besides, we like to poke fun at stupid things people say. Alan has posted many strange and goofy things Louie Gohmert says. I don’t see anybody from Texas getting all up in arms, claiming there are fine and decent Texans, housing the homeless and feeding the hungry. They don’t demand that everybody not paint Texans with one broad brush. They realize that people are going to say stupid sh!t, and they have fun with it. Even if some of the goofs are from their own state.
burqa June 1st, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Bunya: “In my opinion, a “true Christian” is one who knows Kooks exist within all belief systems, and doesn’t feel the need to defend the whole Christian faith every time Pat Robertson opens his mouth. …etc.”
I find nothing in the Christian doctrine that remotely resembles such a notion, nor does it discuss any other aspect that would identify one as a “true Christian”. I do not believe the expression can be found there.
Bunya: “In other words, true Christians are comfortable in their faith and realize that nuts, who refer to themselves as Christian, exist. There’s nothing they can do about it, so they just laugh at them.”
I do that and so do the other Christians I know.
Bunya: “They don’t automatically assume that Alan (or whoever’s posting) is deliberately “branding” all Christians as weirdos.”
When nearly everything Alan posts is along these lines, the logical conclusion is this is how he sees Christians. Overall this appears to be his opinion of the whole group, since he has very little else to post about them.
The same conclusion is logical when we see the reluctance of others posting here to discuss what the majority is up to. They run like citizens of Tokyo in one of those old black and white monster movies when confronted with what the majority of the group are up to.
Bunya: “Maybe Alan posts them because Christians say and do more crazy things that we hear about than other faiths.”
Being wacky fringe kooks is a generally human characteristic I am sure can be found in all the major faith as as well as in large groups of atheists or agnostics. Your notion here reflects the same sort of thinking behind negative racial, ethnic or other stereotypes employed by bigots and racists. They pick a certain group they do not like and decide they are lazy, or are sex-crazed, or are dishonest, or are greedy, etc. They fail to understand that these human characteristics span racial, ethnic or dotted lines on a map that designate nations, states or other geographic areas.
A large part of the fight against racism has been exposing the fallacy of such thinking, and the same is true with the struggles against bigots who judge people by their nationality, ethnic group, religion or place of origin.
Bunya: “No big deal. Nobody cares. Maybe you should lighten up and not care as much either.”
For a long time I did. After all, these were people I mostly agreed with on other issues and came to like and who seemed to like me too. Ignoring it and playing along was pretty easy, and of course I didn’t want to appear stiff, thin-skinned or as one who can’t take a joke.
But after a while there came a time when I got to thinking long and hard about racists I have known in my life. Instead of just looking at them individually, I began to try to see things they all had in common. I spent time thinking of the faulty logic they employed and other common characteristics.
At this time, my opinion was that the Right had a far greater percentage of racists and bigots in their ranks than the Left did. An argument I often made was to challenge conservatives to stop making excuses for and ignoring the presence of bigots and racists in their ranks. The more I thought about it though, and the more I watched and compared, I was unpleasantly surprised to see the same things on the Left to a much greater degree than I had imagined and had to alter my opinion.
What I believe now is we have about the same amount on our side as the Right does. So to be fair, I think the Left should do what I think the Right should do, and that is to stop making excuses for the bigots among us. NO! we should not “lighten up” when we see bigotry. NO! we should not make excuses for it, we should not let it slide. We should understand that what you suggest is the very thing that gives hatred, division and discrimination enough breathing room to survive and spread its poison among us.
This is wrong, dreadfully wrong.
Unlike many, I don’t follow the crowd. I give a damn about my side of the political spectrum and oppose those who are trying to establish a Left-wing Tea Party. That’s how I see it. They talk like the Right-wing Tea Party. They have the same bigotry and employ the same logic and thought patterns. It is a mirror image and once seen, we see in even greater detail how similar the two are. The only difference is they have different targets.
On right-wing shows and media outlets the bigots talk about Muslims the same way bigots on the Left talk about Christians.
The thinking behind it seems to be that the Left should give safe harbor to its own bigots the way the Right does.
I don’t know, maybe they see how the Tea Party’s emotional appeals to base bigotry has turned out voters and won election after election and figure this is what the Left needs to do as a counter.
To me, this is a fighting fire with fire argument.
When the problem is fire, the solution is not more of the problem. The solution is less of the problem, which is why we should fight fire with water.
Bunya June 2nd, 2015 at 1:16 pm
“I find nothing in the Christian doctrine…”
I said, “In my opinion”. I’m not an expert on Christian doctrine, so that’s why it’s just my opinion.
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“I do that and so do the other Christians I know…”
Apparently you’re not a comfortable in your faith as you think. That’s why you get so upset when Alan posts an article pertaining to Christian stupidity.
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“NO! we should not “lighten up” when we see bigotry. NO!”
You’re preaching to the choir. Many of us here are hard core liberals. Why not go on the right wing sites and complain? They need to hear your message.
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“…which is why we should fight fire with water.”
Contrary to what you think or perceive, We are NOT anti-Christian. We are, however, anti-crazy. I myself am no longer Christian, and I’m glad the people listed above,are.
burqa June 2nd, 2015 at 4:18 pm
Bunya: “”I find nothing in the Christian doctrine…”
I said, “In my opinion”. I’m not an expert on Christian doctrine, so that’s why it’s just my opinion. ”
Cool. With thousands of sects that have significant variance between them, keeping track of it all is difficult. That’s why I keep referring back to the Christian doctrine in the Bible. It’s only about 40 pages in the one I use, and there is only one law given as doctrine, which no one who attacks them seems capable of citing.
I like that you say it’s just your opinion but am curious as to what it is based on.
Bunya: “”I do that and so do the other Christians I know…”
Apparently you’re not a comfortable in your faith as you think. That’s why you get so upset when Alan posts an article pertaining to Christian stupidity.”
Please slow down and read what I wrote. Then you won’t appear to want me to do something and then have a problem with it when I do.
I know better than you how comfortable I am with my faith, and am curious as to why you are so concerned about that.
I imagine that in our exchanges I have addressed your point about what Alan posts at least a dozen times. Again, you just haven’t read what I posted and now resort to fiction in terms of inventing a motivation rather than address the ones I have given.
Bunya: “”NO! we should not “lighten up” when we see bigotry. NO!”
You’re preaching to the choir. Many of us here are hard core liberals. Why not go on the right wing sites and complain? They need to hear your message.”
Sorry, but perhaps because you are not reading what you respond to you are missing my point.
I am encouraging people to be consistent and do not see it.
This is not based on one or even several posts, but many. What I see from you and many others is a reluctance to discriminate between the kooks and the overwhelming majority. Likewise I see a refusal to discuss what the majority does in your own communities.
I also see a willful blindness and a refusal to even look to see if what I am describing has any validity. Once you see it, it becomes quite surprising at how similar the bigots on the Right and Left are. I used the expression “mirror image” because it is that close.
First there is the shallow stereotypes.
Second there is the obsessive nature to their need to attack.
Third there is the suggestion that those who oppose bigotry need to “lighten up.”
Fourth there is the same illogical fallacy of judging the majority by the microscopic minority.
Fifth there is the same refusal to look at what the overwhelming majority does and also a refusal to discuss the things they do.
Sixth, like many who feel such an uncontrollable desire to attack “the other,” they travel in packs, they need a crowd around them.
Seventh, they have to make it personal and when they can’t deal with a point, they invent motivations, points the other side makes and what the other person believes.
You have it right to a significant degree when you say I am “preaching to the choir.” The bigots on the Right behave just like the ones on the Left. All you have to do is take off the blindfold and you’ll see the same things on the Left, the only difference being the target.
As to going to right-wing sites, I have put up quite a few posts about my experiences on Red Eye Radio, one of whose hosts I am convinced is the guy posting here as Red Eye Robot. I have also posted about sites like Fox where I have posted.
Sorry you got the impression this is the only site I post on or that I only post on those that lean left.
Bunya: “…which is why we should fight fire with water.”
Contrary to what you think or perceive, We are NOT anti-Christian. We are, however, anti-crazy. I myself am no longer Christian, and I’m glad the people listed above,are.”
Sorry, I’m not buying your first point. I’m sure all of you wish it were so, the conservatives respond the same way when they are called out on their bigotry. They’ll retreat to the same point you did, but they continue, as others here do, to speak of the whole group and do not indicate a recognition that we’re talking of fringe crazies that do not represent the whole.
Conservative bigots who hate Muslims will no more discuss what the Muslims in their communities do that Left-wing bigots will discuss what Christians do in theirs.
As for your own beliefs, I don’t care one way or the other. If you’re a former Christian, that is your affair and I have no opinion on it, and that goes for others. I’m certainly not going to hassle you about it or tell you why you think as you do on the subject or decide I know better than you how comfortable you are with your beliefs.
Bunya June 2nd, 2015 at 5:28 pm
“I like that you say it’s just your opinion but am curious as to what it is based on.”
I spent 8 years in Catholic school
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“…you just haven’t read what I posted and now resort to fiction in terms…”
Go back and read some of your posts. They are repetitive. You say the same things over and over. And, IMO, if you were comfortable in your faith, you wouldn’t be so upset when Alan mentions something Pat Robertson says.
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“Likewise I see a refusal to discuss what the majority does in your own communities.”
We respond to what’s written in the subject. If you’re upset that nobody is discussing community activities, post an article.
“I also see a willful blindness…”
Alan has posted articles about Christian compassion. Because nobody responds to it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
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“Third there is the suggestion that those who oppose bigotry need to “lighten up.”
Once again, you’re preaching to the choir. And, once again, you SHOULD lighten up. Life’s too short to obsess over bigots. There’s nothing anyone can to change that. The bigots themselves have to re-evaluate their own thought process. All I can do is point the way. If they don’t want to take my lead well, I tried.
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“Fifth there is the same refusal to look at what the overwhelming majority does…”
We look, we see, we approve. What else do you want? Alan posts an article about a right wing preacher saying that gays caused 9/11. We don’t need to counter with good Christian deeds.
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“Sorry, I’m not buying your first point.”
Then I’m sorry you feel that way. Some people see the glass as half full and all that.
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In conclusion, we don’t hate Christians. Honestly we don’t. I personally don’t care too much for the Christians who picket Mosques, and it angers me so much that I do say stupid things like, “they’re acting like Christians act”. That was wrong and a stupid thing to say, but it seems to me that it’s always the Christians who are blaming their god for their actions. And when you have to remind us, ad nauseum, that there are good people doing good things, it sounds like you want us to give them a break because of the good guys out there.
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Besides, my God loves everybody unconditionally, gay, straight, Muslim, Jew, etc. I used to be a hard-core conservative. I used to believe everything the bible taught. Then I got wise. Maybe one day I’ll tell you about my turnaround, but this is not the forum to discuss it.
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burqa June 2nd, 2015 at 6:10 pm
Bunya: “I spent 8 years in Catholic school”
Ok. and……?
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Bunya: “”…you just haven’t read what I posted and now resort to fiction in terms…”
Go back and read some of your posts. They are repetitive. You say the same things over and over.”
The fiction I referred to that you wrote is not found in my previous posts. I was referring to what you wrote.
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Bunya: “They are repetitive. You say the same things over and over.”
How ironic of you to put it that way.
Bu-ut, stifling a giggle over it, the reason I have repeated certain points is because the same issue persists and my opinion is the same.
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Bunya: “And, IMO, if you were comfortable in your faith, you wouldn’t be so upset when Alan mentions something Pat Robertson says.”
Here is an example of why I have to keep repeating myself. You still persist in ignoring the reasons I give for what I say and prefer to make stuff up. This is but one example.
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Bunya: “”We respond to what’s written in the subject. If you’re upset that nobody is discussing community activities, post an article.”
Again, you refuse to address the point. Doing so makes me feel like I’m pitching a shutout. When I have brought up what the majority does in our communities, it is in rebuttal to the false stereotypes used by people such as yourself who insist on being blinded as to what is going on all around you because you know your stereotypes will be exploded.
I am merely employing a technique I saw during the civil rights movement. When racists were confronted with what real African Americans did, believed and got to know the kind of people they were, they began to see how false their ideas had been.
Like you and others, they too, refused to look around and those who were trying to show them the truth in real life had to be patient.
I am very patient, too. Just as conservative bigots need to look at what the overwhelming majority of Muslims are about, folks such as yourself need to look at what the overwhelming majority of Christians are about.
I am not as interested in arguing or finger-pointing as I am i persuading people to see things from a different perspective.
Since the bigotry on the Left and Right I see is pretty much identical, the same solutions apply to both.
Right-wing bigots want to hang on to their bigotry so they refuse to examine what Muslims are up to. The same is true of Left-wing bigots and Christians. You and others illustrate this point every time I bring it up.
There’s nothing to be afraid of.
It’s ok to seek out good, generous, selfless people with extraordinary love for others who are helping those in need where you live, Bunya.
It’s ok.
It’s also ok to post about what you find and what these wonderful people often say motivates them.
burqa June 2nd, 2015 at 6:38 pm
To continue my response:
“I also see a willful blindness…”
Bunya: “Alan has posted articles about Christian compassion. Because nobody responds to it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.”
Once again you are not responding to my point.
I was not talking about Alan.
As to this diversion you introduce, my repetitive posts have repetitively spoken of proportion in terms of the few fringe crazies and the overwhelming majority. I do not see in Alan’s posts a comparable proportion of positive versus negative posts that would even vaguely resemble the proportion of positive or negative things happening in the Christian community.
The point you are ducking is I don’t see any similar proportion in what you and others post, either.
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“Third there is the suggestion that those who oppose bigotry need to “lighten up.”
Bunya: “Once again, you’re preaching to the choir. And, once again, you SHOULD lighten up. Life’s too short to obsess over bigots.”
Once again, you duck the point made. The point you are responding to is one of a list of qualities I see in Right-wing bigots and Left-wing bigots. Urging people to lighten up so they can practice their bigotry uninterrupted is a point both sides make.
Come now, you’re a smart guy. Look at all the times we post about some Right-wing bigot who says something objectionable. Are you going to “lighten up” when these things are brought up?
Of course not.
So how about being consistent?
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Bunya: “The bigots themselves have to re-evaluate their own thought process. All I can do is point the way. If they don’t want to take my lead well, I tried.”
I agree. That is what I am doing.
It’s not good enough, in my view, to just call bigots names. I am more interested in persuasion. It took many years in the civil rights era and we see it taking many years to get gays equality. So just trying once or twice will not get the job done. It takes a lot of repetition, as you have pointed out about my posts. They will duck and dodge, but eventually will come around. At least many will.
Bunya June 3rd, 2015 at 11:26 am
I spent 8 years in the Catholic school. That is where I received my Christian education . I’m no theologian, but I’ve read the bible. I know what it says.
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This is Alan’s site. He can post whatever he wants. It’s a wonderful thing we have in this country. Nobody’s forcing you to do anything. If urging people to “lighten up” isn’t working for you here, then go somewhere else. I’m sure we don’t care. But forever accusing us of “Christian-hating” because we don’t think that accusing gays of causing terrorist attacks and tsunamis, or that gays deserve to be rounded up and put in concentration camps, is advantageous to ceasing violence and promoting civil compliance.
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I also can’t understand why someone who finds fault with everyone on this site, still continues to post here. It makes no sense to me. Your constant accusations are falling on deaf ears. If you think your type of persuasion, name calling, accusations – are going to turn people over to your way of thinking, you’re sadly mistaken. People don’t respond too well to being accused of “Christian-hating”, especially the fine Christians that post here.
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And forever trying to prove how “not bigoted” you are, leads me to believe that you are projecting.
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One more thing. You once wrote that you became involved in an argument with another person who posted here a while back. You quickly claimed victory. I disagree. Perhaps he/she finds there’s no point in arguing with someone who’s so obstinate, so pigheaded, that they refuse to listen to another point of view. All I’m suggesting is maybe change your attitude. I’ve found that most people don’t respond favorably to condescension and patronization.
burqa June 3rd, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Bunya: “This is Alan’s site. He can post whatever he wants. It’s wonderful thing we have in this country. Nobody’s forcing you to do anything. If urging people to “lighten up” isn’t working for you here, then go somewhere else.”
It’s nice that you recognize Alan’s right to post what he wants and it is hoped that one of these days you will get to the place where you decide I have the same right.
I do not intend to “lighten up” when it comes to bigotry, regardless of the target.
I will not “lighten up” when the bigots target Muslims, but if doing so seems right to you, go ahead..
I will not “lighten up” when the bigots target gays, , but if doing so seems right to you, go ahead…
I will not “lighten up” when the bigots target African Americans, but if doing so seems right to you, go ahead..
I will not “lighten up” when the bigots target immigrants, but if doing so seems right to you, go ahead..
I will not “lighten up” when the bigots target Christians, , but if doing so seems right to you, go ahead.
Bunya: ” But forever accusing us of “Christian-hating” because we don’t think that accusing gays of causing terrorist attacks and tsunamis, or that gays deserve to be rounded up and put in concentration camps, is advantageous to ceasing violence and promoting civil compliance.”
Ahhh, back to writing fiction again I see.
I tell you why I object to something, you can’t handle that, so you just go and make something up and speak to your fiction. So what you are really doing is debating yourself. Please let us know who wins that debate.
Bunya: “I also can’t understand why someone who finds fault with everyone on this site, still continues to post here.”
You don’t need to understand, not when you consistently make things up!
Try debating ideas rather than continually trying to make personal attacks, assigning motives or otherwise trying to play amateur psychologist. Good grief, it’s not as if I don’t give you plenty to quote and address directly.
Plus, it makes no difference whether I am here or not for you to keep making up these debates with yourself. You need no one else to make stuff up and then address the fiction you posted. In such cases you don’t need me to write fiction about, you can pretend to be debating anyone, alive or dead.
Bunya June 3rd, 2015 at 5:00 pm
“… it is hoped that one of these days you will get to the place where you decide I have the same right.”
You can do whatever you want! I’m merely suggesting that if you find us not to your liking, perhaps you’d be better off on another site. It’s not an insult. I’m not trying to be cocky. I’m serious. If you think Alan is unfairly targeting Christians, why put up with it? One reason I don’t watch Fox “News” is because they, IMO, unfairly paint liberals in a bad light. There’s nothing I can do about what they broadcast, so I stay away.
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“Ahhh, back to writing fiction again I see.”
You bet! If it makes you happy to think it was I who said that 9/11 was caused by God because of America’s acceptance of gays, or that we should put gays in concentration camps, by all means, continue. Whatever keeps you from trashing someone else.
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I think it’s admirable that you don’t intend to “lighten up” when it comes to injustices, but you’re targeting the wrong audience. Liberals also despise bigotry. Sure, some of us are a bit more vocal when responding to posts like the one above, but the sentiment doesn’t change.
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“So what you are really doing is debating yourself.”
Sure thing. You go with that. What was that you said about “playing amateur psychologist”?
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I have an idea. Why not take your own advise and try debating ideas rather than continually trying to make personal attacks, assigning motives or otherwise accusing others of something that you, yourself, are guilty of.
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“You need no one else to make stuff up and then address the fiction you posted.”
Really? I’m the one that accused Alan of “hatemongering”? I’m the one that accuses those here of “Christian hating”?
Y’know, I was merely opining when I accused you of projecting. Now I’m not so sure it isn’t fact.
burqa June 3rd, 2015 at 5:54 pm
Sorry, but I was here 6 or 7 years before you even showed up.
You can’t handle my points so you decide to either:
A) make it personal
B) resort to fiction about what I post
C) have me leave entirely.
None of those speaks well for your arguments to counter mine.
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“Ahhh, back to writing fiction again I see.”
Bunya: “You bet! If it makes you happy to think it was I who said that 9/11 was caused by God…”
There you go again speculating about me personally. It would not phase me one bit were you to decide that fiction you wrote about me was actually about you, though I may find this preoccupation with making things up metastasize like that interesting.
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Bunya: “Liberals also despise bigotry.”
So do conservatives, when it is directed against certain group they favor. Among members of both sides can be found an acceptance of bigotry in some cases and a repugnance of it in others.
Me, I’m more consistent. The group being targeted does not determine whether I accept or object to the bigotry involved, because I don’t like any bigotry. That is why I oppose all of it that I see. I have listed the major groups I have seen bigotry expressed toward and a look at my posts shows I have consistently opposed them all.
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“So what you are really doing is debating yourself.”
Bunya: “Sure thing. You go with that. What was that you said about “playing amateur psychologist”?”
In this case there’s no playing amateur psychologist to it.
You invented a position, assigned it to me and then debated your invention.
You can’t handle having that pointed out.
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“You need no one else to make stuff up and then address the fiction you posted.”
Bunya: “Really?”
Yes. Each time you have done so in this exchange and others I have pointed it out clearly. Each time you dodge the point. This is just another example where you invented a motive for me while avoiding the one I posted..
Bunya June 4th, 2015 at 10:01 am
Project much? You’re asking me to admit I’m a liar. I may be incorrect at times but, unlike you, I don’t deliberately lie. However, if it makes you feel superior to cast aspersions on your opponent, have at it. I can handle it.
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I knew it was a mistake to respond to your post. I can see why nobody responds to you. You’re arrogant and self-righteous. It’s useless arguing with somebody who always has to be right. You accuse me of “fiction”, yet you don’t see the same attribute in yourself. I’m through with you.
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Come back when you can debate in a rational manner without resorting to insults, lying, psychotically analyzing your opponent. and condescension.
burqa June 4th, 2015 at 4:53 pm
Bunya: “You’re asking me to admit I’m a liar. I may be incorrect at times but, unlike you, I don’t deliberately lie.”
On the occasions when I have brought up your habit of resorting to fiction I pointed out just what it was, in this case, as I recall, you invented a motive that did not even vaguely resemble the one I posted. It was a demonstrably false statement and you have yet to either correct it or address the actual statement I made.
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Bunya: ” knew it was a mistake to respond to your post. I can see why nobody responds to you.”
Your mistake was not having an argument equal to mine, compounded by resorting to fiction and made worse by retreating further to making personal attacks.
Many have always responded to me here and in the Chat Room, and in both I have had many pleasant exchanges and anticipate that continuing.
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Bunya: “You’re arrogant and self-righteous”
What I am is someone presenting arguments you are unable to counter. I have an agenda and it is working with you, though progress has been slow and you will need more guidance. But you have moved toward my position, and it pleases me to see positive results from my efforts.
What I also am is more confident in my position, knowing I have a number of points you are unable to address, much less rebut.
That you feel the need to resort to name-calling further encourages me, because in debate the ad hominem attack is the equivalent of waving a white flag. It is a tacit admission you are unable to attack the argument, so you “attack the man.”
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Bunya: “It’s useless arguing with somebody who always has to be right.”
I think we all believe we are right in our opinions. In your case, you have been unable to support yours with rational argument and have been unable to handle mine. Rather than admit your argument is weaker, you resort to fiction, personal attacks and amateur psychology to compensate.
_____________
Bunya: You accuse me of “fiction”, yet you don’t see the same attribute in yourself.”
I not only made the accusation, I supported it with fact that anyone can read in your posts each time I made the allegation.
You, on the other had, merely have an unsupported allegation.
_____________
Bunya: “I’m through with you.”
No you’re not. You can’t help yourself. We will engage on this topic again and I will again deploy points you are unable to handle. Perhaps in the future you will bring more to the table than fiction and amateur psychology to compensate for an inability to address my points.
_____________
Bunya: “Come back when you can debate in a rational manner”
I’m not going anywhere. I enjoy myself here and have for many years. I have not only debated in a rational manner, but in cases other than yours, have encountered people with strong arguments that made me reconsider or alter my position.
I have a nice collection of points you cannot rebut, and a number of others I never got to because it only took a few to prevail here. Your resort to fiction, name-calling and suggestion I leave are all indications of desperation on the part of the one with the weaker argument.
I am not interested in winning arguments as much as I am in persuading bigots to abandon their bigotry. In your case, you have begrudgingly made a few concessions in my direction that not only serve to validate my arguments, but, more importantly, serve to help you grow. Yor eyes are beginning to open ever so slightly and after more such exchanges I expecyt you to be much closer to my position of opposing all bigotry, regardless of the target and regardless of where the bigot is on the political spectrum.
fahvel May 30th, 2015 at 2:35 am
old god is one fkn scoundrel aint he????? having the time of his eternity with his goofy cousin Satan.
burqa May 30th, 2015 at 11:48 pm
I can’t speak for the Muslims, but as I understand it, no part of the Christian doctrine holds that “Jews screwed up God’s message.” Rather, as circumstances change, the applicable doctrine for the times changes.
Dwendt44 May 31st, 2015 at 1:23 am
The Muslims think the Jews got it wrong, the christians think the Muslims got it wrong and the Jews think the christians are getting it wrong. Circular argument. around and around we go, and where it stops, well, it’ll never stop.
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 3:47 pm
I know Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, American Indians and Baha-i’s, besides the Christians I am acquainted with.
None of them fit the broad, shallow stereotype you are trying to paint. They pretty much don’t give a damn what other people think spiritually and have a live-and-let-live attitude.
I doubt any of them much appreciate outsiders who have no idea what their faith encompasses, coming in and telling them what they believe.
Not only do these self-appointed judges get it wrong most of the time, what they do get right is handled so far out of context as to not represent what these people believe.
It’s just bad manners.
The point was well illustrated to me once many years ago during one of the summers I spent in Paris. The brother of my girlfriend had never even been to the U.S. and had not known any Americans. He knew little about the country but this did not stop him from trying to lecture to me about what life was like in America, what we were doing wrong and how we should fix things. It was amazing how far off he was. He described a nation unrecognizable to me and I set him straight on a number of things, including a few things on basic manners.
Too bad you weren’t there..
Bunya May 31st, 2015 at 12:11 am
It’s true, Muslims worship the God of Abraham, and the Qur’an almost mirrors the bible, but because the bible has been altered, edited and revised so many times, the Muslims think the bible has been corrupted.
Chris May 31st, 2015 at 10:35 am
Side note: some spell it Qur’an, some spell it Qu’ran.
Modern spelling for some is Quran. English translation is Koran.
Not trying to be pedantic, just going off on a trivia bender. 🙂
burqa June 3rd, 2015 at 10:39 pm
I just wish we could settle on one standard spelling, and not just for this one word.
I have been working on a research project on terrorism and espionage for many years. The different spellings of names in Russian and Arabic origin can be maddening. I forget just what the references are, but there are different standards for each and the one an author uses often determines the spelling they use.
Another one is al Qaeda. The New York Times will call it just Qaeda. The Washington Post puts a dash in the middle al-Qaeda. I have seen it as Al-Qaeda, al-Qa’ida, Al Qida and if I went back through my notes could find at least one more, I think.
granpa.usthai May 30th, 2015 at 12:57 am
oh yea?
then WTF is Satan always going to the Christian Churches in America?
fahvel May 30th, 2015 at 2:34 am
very true – the snake/serpent/the devil gave this oidiot thing wisdom and look what she does with it. There’s a very strange malady oozing through all the cracks in what was once an enviable society.
Robert Kennedy May 30th, 2015 at 11:46 pm
Guess she didn’t eat the apple of knowledge, huh? But she was allowed to stay in Eden as long as she worshipped Satan in Christian disguise.
bpollen May 30th, 2015 at 4:30 am
Hey Dad! Can I borrow the Hellmobile? I have a hot date with the Queen of the Damned! Yeah, yeah, yeah, your name is Legion, I got it. But can I borrow the vulcan car?
whatthe46 May 30th, 2015 at 4:45 am
silly you. nice one.
NW10 May 30th, 2015 at 5:05 am
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b7/b7099e59c5b84dba31517dcb83949a6761cf07957a21f51da05f3d0446a0729d.jpg
AnthonyLook May 30th, 2015 at 5:06 am
Liberals hate fundamentalist fascist fake christians that believe in legislating discrimination, that believe in legislating the civil rights of others, that believe in separatism, intolerance, prejudice, sexism, bigotry, racism and hate. Liberals do not hate true Christians, nor do they hate any church; just the practices of those fake charlatan christians, which most of them are just republican tea party birther racists.
burqa May 30th, 2015 at 11:44 pm
Speak for yourself.
I’m a liberal and a Christian struggling to get this love thing right and it seems to me that hating all these people you despise would tend to get in the way of that.
I have no idea what a “true Christian” is. It seems to me we are a faith that recognizes we’re a bunch of screw-ups who can’t possibly atone for the wrongs we’ve done, which is why we need a Savior, forgiveness, patience, forbearance and stuff like that.
We try to do better but recognize we need help.
Could you please tell me what a “true Christian” is?
AnthonyLook May 31st, 2015 at 2:59 am
A true Christian, I can give you one example: someone that believes that “we are a faith that recognizes we’re a bunch of screw-ups who can’t possibly atone for the wrongs we’ve done, which is why we need a Savior, forgiveness, patience, forbearance and stuff like that”.
burqa June 3rd, 2015 at 3:32 pm
Thank you. I’m flattered and, hard as it is to believe, am speechless.
AnthonyLook June 3rd, 2015 at 8:39 pm
It’s all you, no thanks needed. You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din. That which you love, would you not fight for it, protect it, honor it, retrieve it? In America, charlatans have hijacked and redefined Christianity in this era of extremism and polarization. I would be lying to others and myself to say that I don’t hate those individuals that perpetuate racism, bigotry, sexism, war mongering, money worshipping, … and in the same vein justify their ideology by attributing such virtues onto God. I don’t think it’s healthy or spiritual to refrain from criticizing fake christians. Having said that; I most certainly respect your love approach.
burqa June 3rd, 2015 at 9:43 pm
Thank you again, your kind words are much appreciated.
I do love my country and our fellow citizens and want to do what I can to help things get better.
Love is the key, and walking in love is not always easy. The whole “love your enemies” thing mystifies me at times.
I know I often fall short of loving as I know I should. I would describe myself as being on the path with a long way to go. Sometimes it’s one step forward and two steps back. I claim no mastery, but will claim to trying sometimes to get there.
Christianity was hijacked in the first century during the lifetime of the Apostle Paul. He describes how it was replaced by something that looked good on the outside but was off the ball.
I’ve spent a lot of time criticizing Christians and others. I have a sharp tongue and it is a struggle at times to keep it reined in. Name-calling and finger-pointing can be temporarily satisfying but I never convinced anyone to change their minds using that approach. It doesn’t work on me, which brings us to the “do unto others” thing.
I’ve also spent a lot of time trying to persuade people and much of that didn’t work either, but sometimes it did.
I just keep asking myself, “What do you want to see happen?” and the answer with bigots or others I disagree with and/or don’t like is I would prefer to see their opinion bend in my direction.
All I can do is live my life the way I think best and hope to influence someone positively by my example. There’s lots to me I wouldn’t want copied, but someone has to say as so many who came before said, and that is that ultimately, love is the better way.
AnthonyLook June 3rd, 2015 at 9:50 pm
Who can argue with that. As I said you’re a better man than I.
burqa June 3rd, 2015 at 10:55 pm
Oh there are a few around here who get pissed off at such talk. They have an ugly stereotype of Christians in mind they don’t want to let go of.
You shoulda been here about a year ago, I forget just when. Liberaland had been having a number of issues and Alan made a deal with FreakOutNation to come in and help out and they have done a marvelous job.
When they came aboard, many of the people you see posting here came in from their board. They had no idea who I was and early on I mentioned I was a Christian and one of them went off on me, calling me a RWNJ fascist something-or-other. It was quite a rant and I about broke my knee slapping it.
Thinking back, I wish now I had copied a link, just to go back and enjoy it. I’ve forgotten who it was. I’ve mentioned it a few times and whoever it was has chosen to not step forward and admit it was he or she who posted it.
I’ve seldom laughed so hard here.
I can’t accept a statement saying I am better than anyone. I’m sure if I really knew you I’d see qualities in your character I wish I had.
David Ish May 30th, 2015 at 5:48 am
I like the man who said “give All to the poor”, “Anyone who live by the weapon who die by the weapon”, don’t pray in the public. “welcome the stranger” and nothing about abortion.
The man was Jesus Christ
Dwendt44 May 30th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
Well….he did tell his followers to sell their clothes and buy a weapon.
burqa May 30th, 2015 at 11:37 pm
Be assured he did was not telling them to walk around naked, looking to get into a sword fight.
Hirightnow May 30th, 2015 at 7:13 am
It’s true.
Why, we don’t even try to hide it anymore….
http://31.media.tumblr.com/e43c8512e25d67f16d502d77e6898cb8/tumblr_n7xqjx8cFm1r72ht7o1_500.gif
Budda May 30th, 2015 at 9:00 am
We don’t hate Christians, we might not like bigots who pretend to be Christian.
Suzanne McFly May 30th, 2015 at 9:01 am
Did I miss a recent “liberal club” meeting? I don’t hate Christians and I don’t worship Satan, I feel so left out. Damn it guys, keep me in the loop!!!
BigDumbWhiteGuy May 30th, 2015 at 10:21 am
Your updated copy of the GayCommieChristianHating Liberal Agenda must have gotten lost in the mail. I’ll be sure to send out another one first thing Monday.
Suzanne McFly May 30th, 2015 at 9:56 pm
Thanks, it seems like I am the last to know things now-a-days.
Dwendt44 May 31st, 2015 at 1:09 am
Are you sure you sent in your renewal fees?
Suzanne McFly May 31st, 2015 at 12:59 pm
Dang it, that 50 cents fee always escapes me. lol
StoneyCurtisll May 30th, 2015 at 11:25 am
You didn’t get the memo?…;)
Suzanne McFly May 30th, 2015 at 9:59 pm
Nooo 🙁
burqa May 30th, 2015 at 11:34 pm
It’s something that came up while you were presiding at the most recent Nice Club meeting.
I like that you’re nice.
Suzanne McFly May 31st, 2015 at 12:57 pm
I won’t claim the “nice” title, but I do believe in the golden rule, “treat others how you want to be treated”.
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 4:09 pm
You won’t claim it because you are too nice to be so egotistical. Such an appellation should come from others.
The world would be a better place with more people who were as nice as you.
Suzanne McFly May 31st, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Thank you very much 🙂
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 4:59 pm
You’re welcome.
It is easy to speak the truth on such a pleasant subject.
I always look for your posts when I log on.
I am sure that others have noticed how nice you are and the example you set.
[burqa sweeps his straw Panama hat from his head, whipping it to one side as if to throw a frisbee, while dropping to a knee, head bowed in the direction of Suzanne McFly]
Suzanne McFly May 31st, 2015 at 7:33 pm
You flirt lol, your making me blush.
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 7:53 pm
[Rising, burqa reaches under his cloak and whips out a small wrapped package with a bow on it and hands it to Ms. McFly, who finds it contains delicious chocolate-covered cocoa beans from Cocopuro]
He says, in his soft Southern accent, “For you, my dear.”
mea_mark May 31st, 2015 at 8:06 pm
You forgot the cheap, sweet wine. Quick, run to the corner store for some strawberry hill. Strawberry wine goes so good with chocolate.
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 10:45 pm
Hmmm, hard to decide.
They got strawberry-peach-apple wine and they also got pineapple-grape-kiwi fruit wine to choose from.
Both are a 2015 vintage.
StoneyCurtisll May 30th, 2015 at 11:43 am
Satan~!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWHOIowtzXA
William May 30th, 2015 at 12:01 pm
Jus’ sayin’.
Dwendt44 May 30th, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Which one is ‘before’ and which is after makeup?
allison1050 May 30th, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Ouch! ;o)
Hirightnow May 30th, 2015 at 4:44 pm
And they can both be called “Clowny”…
CandideThirtythree May 30th, 2015 at 2:31 pm
Enemy of my enemy and all that
labman57 May 30th, 2015 at 4:34 pm
Hey Sandy, if you’re desperate to associate anyone who doesn’t share your twisted religious views with a fictional, malevolent, supernatural being, why not opt for Sauron?
Satan is so 17th century.
robert May 30th, 2015 at 6:26 pm
Dam she’s good
allison1050 May 30th, 2015 at 7:54 pm
The cow had better be earning big bucks for allowing herself to be utterly used ’cause we know they’ll just toss her aside when they’ve finished using her.
obadiahorthodox May 30th, 2015 at 10:51 pm
I’m a Liberal and a card carrying member of the Satanic Temple, BiSexual, and smoke weed. But I sure don’t love Islam or any other religion that promotes hatred of those who think or believe differently than I do.
burqa May 30th, 2015 at 11:32 pm
The peaceful lives led by over a billion Muslims gives overwhelming proof to whether their faith promotes hatred.
Rios is wrong to use shallow, incorrect stereotypes about people and the correct rresponse is not to reply using shallow, incorrect stereotypes.
I happen to be a weed-smoking Christian liberal who is disgusted to see our progress as a society delayed by those who use shallow, incorrect stereotypes to label various groups.
In my life I have seen this faulty sort of thinking delay civil rights for minorities.
I have seen it delay the integration of our society.
I have seen it delay the opening of opportunities for women.
I see it continue to slow equal rights for gays.
Hatred and bigotry are wrong regardless of the target and I think we should all respond when we see it, even if it is not directed toward a group we belong to.
Non-Muslims should stand up for Muslims when they are targeted in this fashion.
Non-gays should stand up for gays when they are discriminated against like this.
Non-Jews should stand up when Jews are targeted by bigots.
Non-Christians should stand up for Christians when bigots attack them.
If this would happen we would see bigotry ebb and our progress as a society hastened.
allison1050 June 2nd, 2015 at 6:44 pm
I find a lot of what you wrote applies to these so called American christians…they for the most part don’t even acknowledge the teachings so forget putting the teachings into practice how can they?
Robert Kennedy May 30th, 2015 at 11:42 pm
Funny she hasn’t noticed that generally it’s only liberals who take the words of Jesus to heart, even if it’s not because he said them, but because it’s the right thing to do. Most conservatives spit in the eye of Jesus with their hatemongering ways every day.
burqa May 31st, 2015 at 12:03 am
That is not what I see almost daily when it comes to the Christians in my community who are following the instructions to give to the poor, feed the hungry, house the homeless, etc.
For decades now I have seen liberals and conservatives pitching in, working together to get the job done. It’s a beautiful thing to see. Going back to the early 80s when the campaign started here for a homeless shelter it has been that way. When local political leaders and big shots in the community opposed the shelter, they were confronted by white and blue collar, conservatives, liberals and middle-of-the-roaders and people of different sects and religions fighting for it.
It was a hell of a fight and went on for years as opponents kept trying to relocate it out in the country or get restrictions imposed to limit the size of the place, who could stay there and how the place was operated.
I see people across the political spectrum chipping in to help with food pantries, soup kitchens and programs that collect all sorts of items for those in need.
I think if you’ll get involved, you’ll see the same thing where you live.
We should not respond to hatemongering with hatemongering any more than we should fight fire with fire.
Fight fire with water.
allison1050 June 2nd, 2015 at 6:41 pm
Deeep