Missouri Republican Wants Law To Let Christian College Groups Ban Gays
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D.B. Hirsch is a political activist, news junkie, and retired ad copy writer and spin doctor. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.
Real news. With snark, invective, and lots of links. Guaranteed behaving badly.
neworleans878 January 12th, 2015 at 7:50 pm
So…they want Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public to subsidize their discrimination…
granpa.usthai January 13th, 2015 at 12:27 am
why not? -it ain’t like no kow farmers in Nevada ain’t a doing it.
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker January 12th, 2015 at 7:52 pm
Well this ain’t the first time the buybull has been used for bigotry and hate.
It is Missouri after all.
Robert M. Snyder January 12th, 2015 at 8:14 pm
While we’re on the subject of “separate but equal”, isn’t it time for historically women-only colleges to start admitting male undergrads? If women and men are intellectually equal, then why do we need special colleges for women only?
Most colleges have a very simple policy which amounts to this:
“All qualified applicants will be considered.”
But at Simmons College, what matters most is the gender identity assigned to a person at birth:
“…the school will accept students born female, regardless of current
gender identity. They will also accept students who were BORN MALE but now
identify themselves as female. They will not accept students who were BORN MALE
but do not identify as male or female, or students BORN MALE who identify as
male. The school’s website says that undergraduate applicants are not required
to provide government-issued identification proving their assigned gender
identity. The policy also only applies to their undergraduate programs, because
their graduate program already accepts both females and males. Students already
enrolled … will be awarded a degree even if their gender identity has
changed…”
http://college.usatoday.com/2014/11/14/simmons-becomes-latest-womens-college-to-admit-transgender-students/
whatthe46 January 12th, 2015 at 8:17 pm
is it a private school? any school that accepts govt. grants should not have the right to discriminate.
Robert M. Snyder January 12th, 2015 at 8:30 pm
“At Simmons College, 77.2 percent of full-time undergraduates receive some kind of need-based financial aid and the average need-based scholarship or grant award is $22,228.”
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/simmons-college-2208
You could say that, technically, the aid is being provided to the student. But I’m pretty sure that the government actually sends a student’s financial aid directly to their school, so it is a distinction without a difference.
tracey marie January 12th, 2015 at 9:06 pm
Nope, it is not federal dollars
arc99 January 13th, 2015 at 12:14 am
There are a few men-only colleges left as well. I do not presume to know how it all jibes with federal laws on financial and discrimination. But it is completely irrelevant to the point of this story.
A college group that is able to enjoy the benefits of school facilities paid for by all students, should be open to membership by all students. If they are unwilling to do that, they have no justification to demand to be recognized in a manner where their activities are subsidized by people who are innately ineligible to participate.
It really is that ismple.
Robert M. Snyder January 13th, 2015 at 1:05 am
You can’t apply one set of principles to clubs and a different set of principles to colleges. People don’t choose their sex any more than they choose their sexual orientation. If it is wrong for a club to refuse admission to someone based upon their sexual orientation, then it is equally wrong for a college to refuse admission to someone based upon their sex.
It really is that simple.
arc99 January 13th, 2015 at 1:39 am
If we set aside the historical need for all-women colleges due to the discrimination that permeated American society for nearly two centuries, the fact is that according to the numbers I find, there are fewer than 30 same-sex colleges in the entire country.
A woman knows that she cannot attend Morehouse College. A man knows that he cannot attend Smith College. However “wrong” it might be that these institutions have not changed their admission policies, those who object to those policies are not subsidizing those institutions.
However a student at a school where organizations are allowed to discriminate are in fact subsidizing through the use of school facilities, groups they are prohibited from joining. You most certainly can apply different standards to clubs vs colleges because the circumstances are different. A same-sex college is not supported by the tuition and fees of those who are biologically ineligible to attend. A discriminatory club at a state university or any co-ed institution is being subsidized at least in part by students who are barred from joining that club.
From a practical standpoint, potentially hundreds or even thousands of student groups benefiting from discrimination at co-ed universities is hardly equivalent to a couple of dozen same-sex colleges where people who object to their admissions practices are under no obligation to provide financial support.
Robert M. Snyder January 13th, 2015 at 3:43 am
Seventy seven percent of undergrads attending Simmons College receive financial aid. The Simmons College Undergraduate Award Guide say that undergrads are eligible for federal Pell grants, SEOG grants, and federal TEACH grants. It would appear that federal funding is paying a lot of the bills at Simmons.
But why are we talking about funding? Does it really make a difference whether Simmons and other single-sex colleges are private or public? Suppose a group of men start a privately-owned business that accepts no government funding or contracts. Would it be permissible for them to have an official policy of hiring only male employees?
What possible justification can there be for having a single-sex college in the twenty first century? Two centuries ago, gender roles were much more rigid. Males and females were expected to conform to certain stereotypes. Today we understand that gender has many dimensions. A person who has a strong male physique might also be capable of great empathy and tenderness. When you have a single-sex admission policy, you are operating under the assumption that a person’s sex is a valid indicator of their personality, or their character, or their ability to contribute.
Any argument that can be used to justify a single-sex campus could also be used to justify a single-sex workplace. Isn’t it time that we held these private colleges to the same non-discrimination standards as private employers?
tracey marie January 12th, 2015 at 9:05 pm
They receive no federal funds, the school offers the aid for the undergraduates. He is leaving out the truth
Robert M. Snyder January 12th, 2015 at 10:08 pm
According to the Simmons College Undergraduate Award Guide 2014-15, the following federal aid is available to undergraduate students:
Federal Pell grant:
“Pell Grants are federal grants awarded to high need students.”
Federal SEOG:
“SEOG’s are federal grants awarded to high need students.”
TEACH Grant:
“The TEACH Grant is a non-need based federal program designed to assist students who are completing or plan to complete coursework necessary to pursue a career in teaching.”
http://www.simmons.edu/financialaid/docs/2014-15_Award_Guide_Undergraduate.pdf
granpa.usthai January 13th, 2015 at 12:25 am
by federal law, due to PUBLIC (means all of US including our LGBT children) funds, they don’t.
tracey marie January 12th, 2015 at 9:05 pm
honesty nd the whole truth seems to be missing. The financial aid is from the COLLEGE itself, not taxpayers. The undergraduate program is for women only, otherwise it is open to all.
Bunya January 12th, 2015 at 8:38 pm
Now why would any gay person want to attend a christian school anyway? Christians obviously don’t like them and would probably make their lives a living hell if one did attend. I will say to my LGBT brothers and sisters, these low level schools are beneath you. There are many other schools of a much higher quality that will accept you as you are.
shocktreatment January 12th, 2015 at 8:48 pm
“Missouri Republican Wants Law To Let Christian College Groups Ban Gays”
Of course he does. Missouri, as a state, just doesn’t have problems of magnitude enough to be a concern of the state legislature.
Better than 15% below the poverty line?
“Trivia!”
Increasing state deficit?
“redumlican deficits don’t matter, dontcha know!”
Huge percentage of nonelderly adults uninsured?
“Good one! Not only will we decline Medicaid expansion, we’ll set the bar for Medicaid eligibility at only parents with incomes below 23% of poverty, or about $5,500 a year for a family of four!
As Lucy Van Pelt often said, “good grief!”
Bunya January 12th, 2015 at 9:21 pm
This guy looks like a younger version of the well-known southern belle, Lindsay Graham.
Budda January 12th, 2015 at 9:23 pm
LOL
shocktreatment January 12th, 2015 at 9:28 pm
Miss Lindsay do have the better hair…
Candide Thirtythree January 12th, 2015 at 10:42 pm
As an atheist, I would love it if christains joined atheist groups, that way they christians could see how civilized people are supposed to act instead of them being buried in the uncivilized Dark Ages with the rest of the christians.
Ron Luce January 13th, 2015 at 12:26 am
With your condescension towards Christians, why would I want to join your group?
Budda January 13th, 2015 at 8:18 am
and Xtians have never had condescending attitudes towards atheists?
You’d probably “join” to sabotage or cause internal strife, but I could be wrong,
Candide Thirtythree January 18th, 2015 at 4:02 am
because they are still human and they can learn not to be so judgmental and hateful…
Remember, I used to be one so I know what I am talking about. I switched churches dozens of times, but I could never find one that was not full of gossips and back biters and people having affairs or beating up their wives or stealing from the building fund or running someone off because she was pregnant out of wedlock….. nothing but drama!
Every friend or coworker who invited me to church swore up and down that their church was not like that but they were and most times I found that out in the parking lot before church even started!!
I am sure there would be a few christians would would like people to hand out with that they didn’t have to worry about all that drama.
Ron Luce January 13th, 2015 at 12:48 am
The problem with this bill is that it is written to benefit religious groups only.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that a campus-based group is allowed to restrict its membership or leadership. For example, should a straight dude be allowed to lead the campus lesbian club?
(That may sound absurd but I seem to remember some right wing Christians hijacking a liberal club at my university.)
But, if you are going to write a law, it has to benefit all groups. Not just religious groups.
towercam January 13th, 2015 at 8:10 pm
Right you are, Ron. It would even better if the law was fully Constitutional! 🙂
We still need to repeal the sick ruling by the Supreme Court on the ‘Citizens United’ case. That ruling is what’s allowing corporations to buy our governments, judges, etc. THAT must be changed.
rg9rts January 13th, 2015 at 1:34 am
Elijah.. This may be news to you,,,you can be gay and christian
towercam January 13th, 2015 at 8:07 pm
How sad, that religion is being allowed to link up with the state.
The People suffer when this happens. History is clear on this.
Must we repeat this sad sick stuff again??
Religion comforts…and cripples.
Real men seek the truth, not the poop of bronze age fairy tales.
Make mine the cold, hard, beautiful truth.